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    • Centrifugal supercharger vs Turbo: Gintani E9X M3 S65 V8 twin turbo kit dyno results and comparison to the Gintani supercharger kit at the same 7.5 psi of boost

      Here is a good example of parasitic losses and the difference between a centrifugal supercharged power curve and a turbocharged power curve on the same motor. As many of you know Gintani is working hard on its E9X M3 S65 V8 stock DME tuned twin turbo kit and the kit is almost ready to be officially released. Many people will no doubt ask how the twin turbo kit compares to the supercharger kits and now you can see the difference for yourself.

      The turbo kit simply makes more torque and horsepower at the same 7.5 psi of boost. Not having to manually spin a compressor wheel and instead using exhaust gases definitely has its benefits. Those benefits being less parasitic drag on the motor and more torque down low and through the entire engine curve.

      Keep in mind these are 91 octane pump gas figures. Hitting over 600 wheel horsepower on 91 octane without meth injection on a supercharger kit just is not possible (despite a certain company making a claim early on that they did so at 7.5 psi through the stock exhaust system). As the dynograph obviously shows cracking 600 whp on 91 octane at 7.5 psi is something that the turbos can achieve on the S65 V8 and the supercharger can not:


      From 3200 RPM to 4500 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 4500 RPM to 7000 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 90+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 7000 RPM to 8300 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 50+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 3700 RPM to 4600 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 80+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 5500 RPM to 6200 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 100+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 6200 RPM to 7200 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 7200 RPM to Redline The Twin Turbo makes 40+ WTQ more vs SC.


      From 3,000 rpm until redline the turbos make more torque. As BimmerBoost stated in impressions of the turbo kit, there is much better response down low and the dyno graph confirms the large torque difference. For those of you who do not like the throttle response or torque of the supercharger low in the rev range, the turbo kit is for you.

      The peak torque difference between the supercharger and turbos is 61 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. On 91 octane, at the same 7.5 psi of boost. That is a healthy difference and it also pays dividends in the peak power figure which shows the turbos with a 31 wheel horsepower advantage.

      More power and more torque through the curve with better throttle response. The turbo era of S65 V8 tuning looks very bright at this early stage. The next step will be seeing how a built motor responds to the turbos and BimmerBoost.com gladly will voluneteer its own built motor M3 to find out. This is excellent work from Gintani who is now clearly separating themselves from the other tuners on the platform.

      Twin turbo 7.5 psi STD correction:


      Twin turbo 7.5 psi SAE correction:




      This article was originally published in forum thread: Gintani Twin Turbo E9X M3 Dyno Graphs and Video started by Sales@Gintani.com View original post
      Comments 159 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        You aren't making much boost so you aren't creating big heat. Not more of an issue than the supercharger and the turbos aren't mounted in the engine bay.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        the turbos aren't mounted in the engine bay.
        there's the answer

        plus they won't fit in the engine bay anyway lol
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        we know the engines have huge potential but at the same time, like Sticky said, BMW builds engines nowadays that are only good for surviving the warranty period stock, so you have to change out some of the hardware if you want to make big power reliably.

        my question for @Sales@Gintani.com is heatsoak an issue on this TT setup?
        I'm pretty sure Sticky didn't say that. Most of BMWs engines these days are built pretty strongly (for instance, there are N54s that have hit >700whp on stock internals). Granted thats a oem turbo motor vs a oem high-rev N/A, but BMW still does overbuild them. My point is that 400 ft-lbs of torque really ISN'T that much torque, the stock rods and crank are pretty beefy and I've not seen any popped ringlands yet.

        I mean the S85 has the same crank material and identical rods/pistons correct? I'm thinking with a bit lower compression, even stock motors will handle a good bit of power.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        and I've not seen any popped ringlands yet.
        http://www.germanboost.com/showthrea...lure-diagnosis
      1. Sered's Avatar
        Sered -
        I should rephrase, no popped ringland failures from excess power; those are due to detonation.
      1. rdeterman's Avatar
        rdeterman -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        I should rephrase, no popped ringland failures from excess power; those are due to detonation.
        True even a built motor will fail with excessive detonation.. which is what happened to that motor.
      1. Sales@Gintani.com's Avatar
        Sales@Gintani.com -
        Some more data:

        Car and Modifications:

        • 2008 BMW M3
        • Gintani Twin Turbo
        • 7.50 PSI Boost (Verified)
        • Both CAT Delete
        • Gintani CATLESS Cross-Pipe
        • Gintani Race Exhaust Rear Section
        • 91 Octane
        • 6MT

        Conditions (Dynojet Weather Station):

        • Temperature:: 83.03 degrees F
        • Atmospheric pressure: 29.09 inHg
        • Humidity: 31%
        • Density Altitude: 3826 Ft.
        • SAE Correction: 1.027
        • STD Correction: 1.056
        • Uncorrected: 1.000

        Results:

        • SAE Corrected: 596whp @ 8080 RPM, 428wtq @ 6170 RPM
        • STD Corrected: 608whp, 436wtq
        • Uncorrected: 581whp, 417wtq



        Graphs:
        SAE Correction:
        Click here to enlarge


        Click here to enlarge



        STD Correction:
        Click here to enlarge


        Click here to enlarge



        Uncorrected:
        Click here to enlarge


        Click here to enlarge




        Engine Vital Statistics:
        Click here to enlarge




        Gintani Twin Turbo HP, TQ, Boost Comparison with Gintani Stage-2 Supercharger:
        Click here to enlarge
      1. Irishace's Avatar
        Irishace -
        Damn that graph is unreal. I am shocked at how this setup really does not impact the power delivery and does not really deviate much from the stock power curve. This would be an absolute blast to drive. Wow, this looks incredible.
      1. daytonaM3's Avatar
        daytonaM3 -
        i Always tought this engines were torque monsters with a turbo but they have less torque as the old s50/m50
      1. daytonaM3's Avatar
        daytonaM3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by daytonaM3 Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        i Always tought this engines were torque monsters with a turbo but they have less torque as the old s50/m50
        Example:616Whp@8050Rpm,544Rwt@5300.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        With the gearing of the M3 you don't miss it, although any tq is welcome. I'm plenty happy with the tq i get from my evolve kit and I came from a n54 with that meaty tq band. I can imagine this kit will give more tq than my supercharger so its a win.

        I worry about the DCT handling it though....
      1. Sales@Gintani.com's Avatar
        Sales@Gintani.com -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by daytonaM3 Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        Example:616Whp@8050Rpm,544Rwt@5300.
        It is the mid-range torque gains our TT provides which we were aiming for (which is advantageous for daily driving compared to being flat footed on the throttle all the time):


        • From 3200 RPM to 4500 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WHP more vs SC.
        • From 4500 RPM to 7000 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 90+ WHP more vs SC.
        • From 7000 RPM to 8300 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 50+ WHP more vs SC.
        • From 3700 RPM to 4600 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 80+ WTQ more vs SC.
        • From 5500 RPM to 6200 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 100+ WTQ more vs SC.
        • From 6200 RPM to 7200 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WTQ more vs SC.
        • From 7200 RPM to Redline – The Twin Turbo makes 40+ WTQ more vs SC.
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        Any updates? Ready to up the boost? Looking forward to seeing where a TT stock motor S65 peaks at since it's less stress on the motor over a S/C, maybe 700+whp will be seen?
      1. MonsterM3's Avatar
        MonsterM3 -
        Any updates?
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        +1 for updates
      1. MonsterM3's Avatar
        MonsterM3 -
        gintani never really responds here, Ill ask over on M3P so we can get a quicker response
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I just got off the phone with Gintani. Unfortunately they were not open or online when you posted your 'demand' for info at 5 AM.

        It may be best for you to stay over there. You would fit in better.

        Kthxbye
      1. SSO95's Avatar
        SSO95 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MonsterM3 Click here to enlarge
        This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
        gintani never really responds here, Ill ask over on M3P so we can get a quicker response
        autisms are infinite with you, my friend. good luck irl.
      1. AlexQuattro's Avatar
        AlexQuattro -
        Well that guy was special...