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    • Centrifugal supercharger vs Turbo: Gintani E9X M3 S65 V8 twin turbo kit dyno results and comparison to the Gintani supercharger kit at the same 7.5 psi of boost

      Here is a good example of parasitic losses and the difference between a centrifugal supercharged power curve and a turbocharged power curve on the same motor. As many of you know Gintani is working hard on its E9X M3 S65 V8 stock DME tuned twin turbo kit and the kit is almost ready to be officially released. Many people will no doubt ask how the twin turbo kit compares to the supercharger kits and now you can see the difference for yourself.

      The turbo kit simply makes more torque and horsepower at the same 7.5 psi of boost. Not having to manually spin a compressor wheel and instead using exhaust gases definitely has its benefits. Those benefits being less parasitic drag on the motor and more torque down low and through the entire engine curve.

      Keep in mind these are 91 octane pump gas figures. Hitting over 600 wheel horsepower on 91 octane without meth injection on a supercharger kit just is not possible (despite a certain company making a claim early on that they did so at 7.5 psi through the stock exhaust system). As the dynograph obviously shows cracking 600 whp on 91 octane at 7.5 psi is something that the turbos can achieve on the S65 V8 and the supercharger can not:


      From 3200 RPM to 4500 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 4500 RPM to 7000 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 90+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 7000 RPM to 8300 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 50+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 3700 RPM to 4600 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 80+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 5500 RPM to 6200 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 100+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 6200 RPM to 7200 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 7200 RPM to Redline The Twin Turbo makes 40+ WTQ more vs SC.


      From 3,000 rpm until redline the turbos make more torque. As BimmerBoost stated in impressions of the turbo kit, there is much better response down low and the dyno graph confirms the large torque difference. For those of you who do not like the throttle response or torque of the supercharger low in the rev range, the turbo kit is for you.

      The peak torque difference between the supercharger and turbos is 61 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. On 91 octane, at the same 7.5 psi of boost. That is a healthy difference and it also pays dividends in the peak power figure which shows the turbos with a 31 wheel horsepower advantage.

      More power and more torque through the curve with better throttle response. The turbo era of S65 V8 tuning looks very bright at this early stage. The next step will be seeing how a built motor responds to the turbos and BimmerBoost.com gladly will voluneteer its own built motor M3 to find out. This is excellent work from Gintani who is now clearly separating themselves from the other tuners on the platform.

      Twin turbo 7.5 psi STD correction:


      Twin turbo 7.5 psi SAE correction:



      This article was originally published in forum thread: Gintani Twin Turbo E9X M3 Dyno Graphs and Video started by Sales@Gintani.com View original post
      Comments 153 Comments
      1. Group.america's Avatar
        Group.america -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If we are going to talk about what the S85 can do they are well into the 700's to the wheels with the SC. So, turbos will do some insane things.
        Built S85 should be in the 1xxx class......
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
        Built S85 should be in the 1xxx class......
        I see no reason why it would not be.
      1. Group.america's Avatar
        Group.america -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I see no reason why it would not be.
        Someone with $$$ to spend.

        One of the favourite motors I have thrashed around but the car behind them leaves a lot to be desired for mind..............plus people who bought these and then dumped them are onto F10's and E63 AMG (forgot that engine) and used F430's, Porker 997.1 TT etc

        I think undercover were looking at doing an TT S85 build this year ????
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The only C63 that can beat the M3 around the track is the Black Series and then I'd of course say look at the M3 GTS. That said, the M3 is the lighter and better balanced car.

        Yes I'm going to throw these on as soon as I set the records I want to set and then sell the kit. I'll be going with GT35R's unless I can fit something bigger. Time to show people just how 'weak' the M3 is Click here to enlarge
        pity there's only 250 GTS's :/

        twin 35R's, y'all best be shooting for like 1200whp lol.

        i love how this devolves into an N54 vs S65 debate like always.. i stand by S65 better motor in many respects, but either can make more than enough power easily for 99.9999999% of cases, so who gives a $#@!?

        can't wait for built motor built head S65 turbo results Click here to enlarge

        and 28r's in this kit?.. even with these, built motor, they could flow 900hp at least.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        and 28r's in this kit?.. even with these, built motor, they could flow 900hp at least.
        Definitely. Only insane people who want to push the limits will need more. The car is seriously fun at 600 whp. On race gas and 10 psi it should get close to 135 miles per hour or so in the 1/4 if I were to guess on the stock internals. You could probably go up to 12 psi if you addressed the bearings but someone with huevos needs to find out.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        i love how this devolves into an N54 vs S65 debate like always..
        It really doesn't need to.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        twin 35R's, y'all best be shooting for like 1200whp lol.
        I've been researching 35R's and it looks like they can support around that level. Maybe more with a 4.4-4.6 liter? Click here to enlarge
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The S54 is great but the S65 is about to rule all. Watch.
        Let see how it holds up after it hits the 1000hp mark. When they release the s85 tt kit that will $#@! on EVERYTHING
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        Let see how it holds up after it hits the 1000hp mark. When they release the s85 tt kit that will $#@! on EVERYTHING
        Well, yes. The S85 is the best motor from BMW M to ever grace an M car, period.

        I was speaking in the context of the M3 of course. If only BMW put the V10 under the hood of something lighter, eh?
      1. rdeterman's Avatar
        rdeterman -
        Id love to see a TT S85... I don't even care if its in a BMW... It would be amazing
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        @Sticky something like the i8...
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I've been researching 35R's and it looks like they can support around that level. Maybe more with a 4.4-4.6 liter? Click here to enlarge
        yep, garrett lists them as 450-750hp a piece, and they should be pretty happy around the mid 3x PSI Click here to enlarge... 1200 won't stress 2 by any means.

        4.4 will help spool that's for sure.. wouldn't want to sacrifice revs though Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        wouldn't want to sacrifice revs though
        F it. 4.4 liter and rev it to 10k. Let's break some stuff. Maybe a few hearts.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
        Arent the rods/bearings/studs better than that ?
        well, there are some supercharged S85s on low boost that hold up just fine and there's one guy who has a VT2 who has dynoed mid 600whp has put 20k boosted miles, but his engine is built with treated bearings. engines have blown stock and tuned because of the whole rod bearing headache.

        to say BMW has done some cost cutting measures in building the S85/S65 would be kinda accurate. seeing all the ruckus with NA engines failing due to the whole rod bearing BS that's happened you can't say BMW kinda made it tight in there, and the old engines had $#@! leaded rod bearings. like stock motor i think the engine is just too sensitive in that area to handle big power. that's a whole nother bunch of threads though.

        built motor with corrections in those areas will make consistent insane power.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well, yes. The S85 is the best motor from BMW M to ever grace an M car, period.
        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
        to say BMW has done some cost cutting measures in building the S85/S65 would be kinda accurate. seeing all the ruckus with NA engines failing due to the whole rod bearing BS that's happened you can't say BMW kinda made it tight in there, and the old engines had $#@! leaded rod bearings. like stock motor i think the engine is just too sensitive in that area to handle big power. that's a whole nother bunch of threads though.

        built motor with corrections in those areas will make consistent insane power.
        This is right.

        If you address the tolerances, bearings, and all that, the motors are unstoppable.
      1. SSO95's Avatar
        SSO95 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        F it. 4.4 liter and rev it to 10k. Let's break some stuff. Maybe a few hearts.
        Reading $#@! likes this feeds my blind optimism regarding success for some reason. Can't wait to be posting my own build threads down the line.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        F it. 4.4 liter and rev it to 10k. Let's break some stuff. Maybe a few hearts.
        and some oil pans, rods, valves, cylinder walls

        worthit.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        and some oil pans, rods, valves, cylinder walls

        worthit.
        If you aren't breaking things you aren't making enough power.

        We'll find the limits and then push past them creating new ones.
      1. onisyndicate's Avatar
        onisyndicate -
        With a 600whp TT setup and a DCT. Makes it very tempting to get a e90 4 door m3 and go that route instead of the E63 Wagon route with the 6.3. You do a Built stroker motor on top of the turbos and the torque curve will be insane!
      1. mpower33's Avatar
        mpower33 -
        how much is the turbo kit ? and is the engine stock ?
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Really want one of these....someone send them an S85 car to turbo please too