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    • Centrifugal supercharger vs Turbo: Gintani E9X M3 S65 V8 twin turbo kit dyno results and comparison to the Gintani supercharger kit at the same 7.5 psi of boost

      Here is a good example of parasitic losses and the difference between a centrifugal supercharged power curve and a turbocharged power curve on the same motor. As many of you know Gintani is working hard on its E9X M3 S65 V8 stock DME tuned twin turbo kit and the kit is almost ready to be officially released. Many people will no doubt ask how the twin turbo kit compares to the supercharger kits and now you can see the difference for yourself.

      The turbo kit simply makes more torque and horsepower at the same 7.5 psi of boost. Not having to manually spin a compressor wheel and instead using exhaust gases definitely has its benefits. Those benefits being less parasitic drag on the motor and more torque down low and through the entire engine curve.

      Keep in mind these are 91 octane pump gas figures. Hitting over 600 wheel horsepower on 91 octane without meth injection on a supercharger kit just is not possible (despite a certain company making a claim early on that they did so at 7.5 psi through the stock exhaust system). As the dynograph obviously shows cracking 600 whp on 91 octane at 7.5 psi is something that the turbos can achieve on the S65 V8 and the supercharger can not:


      From 3200 RPM to 4500 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 4500 RPM to 7000 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 90+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 7000 RPM to 8300 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 50+ WHP more vs SC.
      From 3700 RPM to 4600 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 80+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 5500 RPM to 6200 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 100+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 6200 RPM to 7200 RPM The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WTQ more vs SC.
      From 7200 RPM to Redline The Twin Turbo makes 40+ WTQ more vs SC.


      From 3,000 rpm until redline the turbos make more torque. As BimmerBoost stated in impressions of the turbo kit, there is much better response down low and the dyno graph confirms the large torque difference. For those of you who do not like the throttle response or torque of the supercharger low in the rev range, the turbo kit is for you.

      The peak torque difference between the supercharger and turbos is 61 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. On 91 octane, at the same 7.5 psi of boost. That is a healthy difference and it also pays dividends in the peak power figure which shows the turbos with a 31 wheel horsepower advantage.

      More power and more torque through the curve with better throttle response. The turbo era of S65 V8 tuning looks very bright at this early stage. The next step will be seeing how a built motor responds to the turbos and BimmerBoost.com gladly will voluneteer its own built motor M3 to find out. This is excellent work from Gintani who is now clearly separating themselves from the other tuners on the platform.

      Twin turbo 7.5 psi STD correction:


      Twin turbo 7.5 psi SAE correction:




      This article was originally published in forum thread: Gintani Twin Turbo E9X M3 Dyno Graphs and Video started by Sales@Gintani.com View original post
      Comments 159 Comments
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I don't like the trans in the c63, hate the interior of the c6 and the viper is to far to the sports car side of impracticality for me. The m3 is well rounded, civil when you need it to be, mean when you want it to be....tough combo to beat IMO
        Right on, I mean there are only 4 manufactures in my eyes that really compete directly with one another in the luxury performance world. MB, BMW, Audi, and Cadillac. And right now the M3 is the best buy, or a CTS-V. AMG's are over priced in the used market and Audi just brought back the "RS" line.

        BTW, anything new on your M3? Any plans for some Gintani goodness?
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        When you look at that curve, and realize that it's only a HALF of a ATM/BAR of boost, you can see how ridiculously well the S65 responds to boost. Beautiful curve - would love to drive that monster.
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        @Fast Willy
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Linracing Click here to enlarge
        04 viper srt10, c63 and c6 z06 those murder the m3 by far!
        Viper: impractical, kinda ugly, makes the m3 gas mileage look good, side exhaust has been known to melt things, will try to rape you on the track if you make even the smallest mistake... Winner m3
        c6zo6>m3... If you can get past that cobalt ss interior
        c63<m3... Just because this is bimmer boost and not Benz boost, may be a different story over there
        E46m3 >e92m3 because... S54
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Still interested to hear how they're boost controlling, someone on M3P said they're not using an EBC so I'm wondering if they're just running spring pressure... Not ideal, but for a stock motor kit it makes sense; just make changes to the Ignition Timing/Fueling for different fuel octanes (91 vs 93 vs 100+ vs E85).


        Was also nice to hear they're still running the OEM fuel system.
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Still interested to hear how they're boost controlling, someone on M3P said they're not using an EBC so I'm wondering if they're just running spring pressure... Not ideal, but for a stock motor kit it makes sense; just make changes to the Ignition Timing/Fueling for different fuel octanes (91 vs 93 vs 100+ vs E85).


        Was also nice to hear they're still running the OEM fuel system.
        +1 on this... I was so caught up on this actually happening I completely forgot about that
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        So sick.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Here is a good example of parasitic losses and the difference between a centrifugal supercharged power curve and a turbocharged power curve on the same motor. As many of you know Gintani is working hard on its E9X M3 S65 V8 stock DME tuned twin turbo kit and the kit is almost ready to be officially released. Many people will no doubt ask how the twin turbo kit compares to the supercharger kits and now you can see the difference for yourself.

        The turbo kit simply makes more torque and horsepower at the same 7.5 psi of boost. Not having to manually spin a compressor wheel and instead using exhaust gases definitely has its benefits. Those benefits being less parasitic drag on the motor and more torque down low and through the entire engine curve.

        Keep in mind these are 91 octane pump gas figures. Hitting over 600 wheel horsepower on 91 octane without meth injection on a supercharger kit just is not possible (despite a certain company making a claim early on that they did so at 7.5 psi through the stock exhaust system). As the dynograph obviously shows cracking 600 whp on 91 octane at 7.5 psi is something that the turbos can achieve on the S65 V8 and the supercharger can not:

        Click here to enlarge

        From 3200 RPM to 4500 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WHP more vs SC.
        From 4500 RPM to 7000 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 90+ WHP more vs SC.
        From 7000 RPM to 8300 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 50+ WHP more vs SC.
        From 3700 RPM to 4600 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 80+ WTQ more vs SC.
        From 5500 RPM to 6200 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 100+ WTQ more vs SC.
        From 6200 RPM to 7200 RPM – The Twin Turbo makes 60+ WTQ more vs SC.
        From 7200 RPM to Redline – The Twin Turbo makes 40+ WTQ more vs SC.


        From 3,000 rpm until redline the turbos make more torque. As BimmerBoost stated in impressions of the turbo kit, there is much better response down low and the dyno graph confirms the large torque difference. For those of you who do not like the throttle response or torque of the supercharger low in the rev range, the turbo kit is for you.

        The peak torque difference between the supercharger and turbos is 61 lb-ft of torque at the wheels. On 91 octane, at the same 7.5 psi of boost. That is a healthy difference and it also pays dividends in the peak power figure which shows the turbos with a 31 wheel horsepower advantage.

        More power and more torque through the curve with better throttle response. The turbo era of S65 V8 tuning looks very bright at this early stage. The next step will be seeing how a built motor responds to the turbos and BimmerBoost.com gladly will voluneteer its own built motor M3 to find out. This is excellent work from Gintani who is now clearly separating themselves from the other tuners on the platform.

        Twin turbo 7.5 psi STD correction:

        Click here to enlarge

        Twin turbo 7.5 psi SAE correction:

        Click here to enlarge

      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
        7.5 psi and 600 whp = sick good
        This engine + turbos = glorious.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Group.america Click here to enlarge
        91 crapola octane as, so race gas and this = 660 whp 450-480 talk
        With race gas you'll make enough torque to destroy the factory rods. Would be interesting to see how far they could take it though before she let go. 700?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by richpike Click here to enlarge
        I can't quit thinking about this. This is the first time I've wanted to trade my 335 for an M3 (6,500ft ASL kills NA cars and I'm just not a SC fan). And now I *really* want to. Especially with E90 M3s in the $30s. This is killing me.

        Damn you Gintani! Damn you! Click here to enlarge

        -Rich
        There is no comparison. You have to drive this thing.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SSO95 Click here to enlarge
        hahaha I'm sorry stick but you got shafted by gintani so bad
        Why? How? Because superchargers came first? How is that anyone's fault?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
        Good work to Gintani. What I noticed is that even when the car hits full boost, it's not like regular boosted cars. This graph is still very linear just like a SC setup, it doesn't have that huge mountain of power that just comes in super fast. Looks like it's not too bad to handle and even a great track car still.
        Exactly, you get it. It's still very linear just with more of everything... everywhere.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Linracing Click here to enlarge
        04 viper srt10, c63 and c6 z06 those murder the m3 by far!
        How does the C63 'murder' the M3? The M3 is a much better car especially on the track.

        Viper SRT10? Yeah that's definitely a four seat car.

        I'll take my 8500+ rpm V8 with a DCT over anything you mentioned which frankly are not even logical comparisons. You might as well throw an F430 Scuderia in the mix too.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I don't like the trans in the c63, hate the interior of the c6 and the viper is to far to the sports car side of impracticality for me. The m3 is well rounded, civil when you need it to be, mean when you want it to be....tough combo to beat IMO
        Bingo, that's what the M3 is. The world's best all around driver's car. It's strong in all areas, not just one.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
        Common in larger motors running TT kits, they spool quicker. And it's only 7.5psi. Part of me wishes I would have waited for this, but I'm hoping the N54 won't need to be built for a consistent 700-750whp setup where as the S65 seems it absolutely needs to be...and that my friend is...$$$
        If you have the money it is no comparison. Especially if you want more than 700. You are going to have to build basically every motor if you want to seek four digit figures which the S65 will hit and surpass with greater ease.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        E46m3 >e92m3 because... S54
        The S54 is great but the S65 is about to rule all. Watch.
      1. SSO95's Avatar
        SSO95 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why? How? Because superchargers came first? How is that anyone's fault?
        idk i iz jelly
      1. BigM62's Avatar
        BigM62 -
        Beautiful dyno graph. Is th twin turbo kit the same price as the s/c price with installation?
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If you have the money it is no comparison. Especially if you want more than 700. You are going to have to build basically every motor if you want to seek four digit figures which the S65 will hit and surpass with greater ease.
        And by greater ease, he means the money flying out of your wallet with greater ease to reach the same power levels.