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    • AutoCar reviews the 2015 F80 M3 and states the M3 does not benefit from being turbocharged

      The first drive's from journalists sampling the new 2015 F80 M3 are starting to come in. Yes, the M3 is available as a sedan only but no point whining about the death of the M3 coupe here as that discussion is over with. Steve Sutcliffe of AutoCar got his hands on the the new M car which has slightly more power but much more torque down low from the turbocharged S55B30 (after the turbo lag) than the previous generation naturally aspirated high revving S65 V8. What did he think of it?


      Now on paper the new car of course should be better. BMW promotes it as being much lighter (although it really isn't), more fuel efficient, offering more torque, and more power. This should be a slam dunk right? Well, not so fast.

      He says that you can definitely feel the car has less weight but considering he does not actually weigh it he may just be perceiving a lighter steering feel. This is the problem with subjective analysis without data. The car is definitely well balanced as he shows with how it is to maintain a power on slide with the rear doing exactly what the rear of an M3 should when the driver commands it to.

      Now what he says is a major caveat (which seconds later he rephrases it as a 'decent sized' caveat) is the engine. This is the sticking point for the M purist as well. How is the new turbo motor? He says the sounds is not exactly boring but it is flat. We already knew that from an exhaust clip earlier but it is interesting to note the perception from a journalist inside the cabin. Revving this engine out just is not as exciting as revving out the previous generation car. For some this is a big deal for some it is not. BimmerBoost considers it a major change that takes away a bit of the excitement.

      He states he likes 90% of the car. Its brakes, chassis, handling, interior, exterior, price point, etc. All traditionally strong M3 areas. However, he states the car does not benefit from being turbocharged and BimmerBoost strongly agrees. If the M3 is all about torque now and ECU upgrades to unlock a bit more more power, sure, there are those who are likely new to BMW and who are probably 335i fans that think the turbo motors are great.

      Those who are not new to BMW and loved M cars because they were racecars with daily usability offering Motorsport inspired engines that when surging toward redline offered an experience that only a Ferrari or Porsche could match will not think the change is so great. Looking back at the E9X M3, E46 M3, E36 M3, and E30 M3, BMW delivered the experience of high revs and razor sharp response that nobody else could match with a manual transmission and four seats. That's right, nobody.

      Some may consider the F80 M3 progress and adore it. Others will consider it a sign BMW has lost its way and went from producing special M cars to simply great M cars. Where do you stand?

      'Come on, the engine is at the center of every M car, surely. And the engine in this particular M car is, whilst amazingly efficient and bursting with torque, it doesn't have that rip to it that a real proper M engine has... had in the past. But I'm afraid that now seems like it is a thing of the past.'

      It's nice to see a journalist who actually gets it.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: AutoCar reviews M3 and S55 started by BlackJetE90OC View original post
      Comments 132 Comments
      1. Group.america's Avatar
        Group.america -
        Somewhat dissapointing in stock version.. maybe once the tuning crowd gets her it will be a better beast, at this stage I would probably buy an E9x and add a blower or TT if in that market
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        I just don't get people who complain about the sound of the engine. Who gives a $#@!!?! Mustangs have sounded great for years. They're still slow and until recently sucked to drive. More tq, more HP, WTF do you people want. Certainly not progress. This sounds like a Porsche forum right now.
        For BMW drivers that have been driving M-products for 10-20+ years. Do you think it is all about more hp/tq?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Omni Click here to enlarge
        What are the biggest differences between the N54 and this new S55 motor?
        Closed deck block. Water/air intercooler. Valvetronic. That's about it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        I just don't get people who complain about the sound of the engine.
        I don't get people who don't:

      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        It's a BMW not a Ferrari.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        It's a BMW not a Ferrari.
        So?
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        So?
        So a V8 sound is a V8 sound. Who cares, if it's slow. Go get a Mustang and it'll sound just as good or better. I bet that the new M3/M4 will put down better lap times than the S65. So what are the purists going to complain about then? The sound? Who cares.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        So a V8 sound is a V8 sound.
        That's not true at all.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        Go get a Mustang and it'll sound just as good or better.
        See above.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        I bet that the new M3/M4 will put down better lap times than the S65.
        How?

        Click here to enlarge


        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        So what are the purists going to complain about then? The sound? Who cares.
        Everything that was stated in the OP.
      1. Torgus's Avatar
        Torgus -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        How?
        Do you really think bmw is going to release a new m3/m4 that is slower than the previous version?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
        Do you really think bmw is going to release a new m3/m4 that is slower than the previous version?
        It's not beating the M3 GTS on a racetrack.
      1. BlackJetE90OC's Avatar
        BlackJetE90OC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        I bet that the new M3/M4 will put down better lap times than the S65.
        Why wouldn't it? Has any new M3 been slower than the previous generation.

        We get it, you don't care about how a car feels. You are in the camp that cares about numbers. If it gets better numbers, then surely it must be a better car. This will be a good upgrade for a lot of the Juice Box N54 crowd.

        Like the reviewer (Sutcliffe), I don't like FI either. I prefer a 911 GT3 over a 911 Turbo, I prefer a Boss 302 over a GT500, etc... Different strokes for different folks.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        That's about the dumbest statement I've heard all day.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not beating the M3 GTS on a racetrack.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        That's about the dumbest statement I've heard all day.
        You have no idea what you're talking about.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        That's like saying "The new Z4 won't beat the Z4 GT3" Of course a production car won't beat a race car. WTF

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not beating the M3 GTS on a racetrack.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        That's like saying "The new Z4 won't beat the Z4 GT3" Of course a production car won't beat a race car. WTF
        You still don't know what you are talking about.

        The M3 GTS is a street legal car just like the M3 CSL. It's built with the racetrack in mind.

        You think a 3500+ pound F80 M3 with less power that will go into limp mode after a lap or two is going to beat a more powerful and lighter M3 with adjustable suspension and downforce? Amusing.
      1. Torgus's Avatar
        Torgus -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not beating the M3 GTS on a racetrack.
        you mean a purpose built race car that happens to be street legal? go figure. you are not comparing apples to apples now. you are comparing apples to gmo apples. probably a bad analogy but you get the point.

        also, I am going to have to assume bmw will make a similar 'gts' model for the new m4.

        people can hate all they want, it's progress, and the stats are all better numbers wise. Numbers sell cars as much as car and driver reviews.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        Right but again you're comparing a special edition E9x M3 to a normal production model F80 M3. How about you take a normal off the shelf E9x M3 and put it against a normal off the shelf F80 M3. Quit being a fan boy and be realistic here.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You still don't know what you are talking about.

        The M3 GTS is a street legal car just like the M3 CSL. It's built with the racetrack in mind.

        You think a 3500+ pound F80 M3 with less power that will go into limp mode after a lap or two is going to beat a more powerful and lighter M3 with adjustable suspension and downforce? Amusing.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
        you mean a purpose built race car on a race track?
        It's a street car.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
        you are not comparing apples to apples now. you are comparing apples to gmo apples. probably a bad analogy but you get the point.
        I'm comparing the new M3 to the old M3. Sorry BMW built the M3 GTS?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
        people can hate all they want, it's progress, and the stats are all better numbers wise. Numbers sell cars as much as car and driver reviews.
        People are stupid. It's not better because it's faster.
      1. Torgus's Avatar
        Torgus -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        Right but again you're comparing a special edition E9x M3 to a normal production model F80 M3. How about you take a normal off the shelf E9x M3 and put it against a normal off the shelf F80 M3. Quit being a fan boy and be realistic here.
        You must spread reputation around before rating this user again
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
        Right but again you're comparing a special edition E9x M3 to a normal production model F80 M3. How about you take a normal off the shelf E9x M3 and put it against a normal off the shelf F80 M3. Quit being a fan boy and be realistic here.
        Yes I am so making a blanket statement that the F80 M3 will beat the E9X M3 without taking the entirety of the previous generation's models into account is a fallacy.

        Yes, the standard F80 M3 will beat the E92 M3. That doesn't mean the E92 M3 can't beat the F80 M3 or that the F80 M3 is the better track car. The better track car is the E92 M3.