• The difference a DCT makes - BMS Tuned 2014 F10 M5 vs. two BMS tuned E92 335 N54's with upgraded twin turbos from a roll

      The camera car in these two videos is the Burger Tuning F10 M5. This car has a BMS JB4 piggyback and downpipes. Some impressive output at the wheels has been shown from this car on a Dynojet in the in the ~630 wheel horsepower range. That is a tall order to overcome for a 335i even for one equipped with upgraded twin turbos. The 335i just is giving up too much power and torque to the M5 along with quicker shifts to the DCT.

      And the DCT is the key. The first video shows an E92 335i that has a manual transmission and it gets crushed. The second video has a similarly modded E92 335is with the RB turbo upgrades but the difference is that it is the 335is model that has the DCT transmission.

      Look at the results and see what a difference a dual clutch makes for yourself.





      This article was originally published in forum thread: The difference a DCT makes - BMS Tuned 2014 F10 M5 vs. two BMS tuned E92 335 N54's with upgraded twin turbos from a roll started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 70 Comments
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
        do you HONESTLY think if you didn't put the same driver in both cars the results wouldn't be similar? like come on now.. i even stated if both drivers are greatness this is pretty accurate. it seems a buncha you guys are regretting not buying a 335is the same way years ago butthurt 335i owners tried to compare their cars to the m3..
        Smh...
      1. e92ttking's Avatar
        e92ttking -
        I agree with sticky
        manual just looses to much boost between shifts.
        DCT is 10x faster either way you look at it. And once a reliable upgrade comes for the clutch packs, single and dct will be game over
      1. BMWJunkie's Avatar
        BMWJunkie -
        I trapped 121.5 with stock turbos no meth

        335is dct Click here to enlarge
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        i dont care about the cars. these are all 30k dollar entry level sport coupes that get $#@! on by 100s of new cars lol... I am stating the title of this article is misleading as is the conclusion you and sticky are coming too... the issue here is two simple steps that could prove this theory were not taken. Get logs from that run from each car involved and do the race again .... this hypothesis may very well be 100 accurate...

        I agree the DCT is superior to the Manual tranny.... but there are SOOOOO many variables ignored by you even more so than sticky... gearing of each vehicle... gear car started in, aggressivness of tune, health of car, weight of cars, driver driving, dont even know what tranny the other car is lol, logs looked at, how many runs did each car just do , ETC... give me a break dude, this article is missing facts, period.

        Terry went 11.0@130 with RBs.. automatic is the best. period.

        ive humiliated n54s with the same tune and more mods,why? bc n54 tuning is shotty still and these cars are inconsistant... AND Ts m5 has a piggy too with an m5 still in early development... he easily could have also been not running up to par as well as another has mentioned...

        that race shows a difference of AT LEAST 50-60 WHP... no shift makes that time up... the car doesnt stop rolling , pause , than restart when shifting... we are not talking about that much of a difference in a race like that... i am sorry its not the case....
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        So your saying it doesn't matter that there not exactly the same? so if the dct was making another 80whp it doesn't matter?? So if i find a vid of a manual winning against a dct with the same turbo it means manual is faster? based on what your presenting this is what your suggesting . Thats what i mean by biased
        Do you know how much power it is making? Do you have logs? Do you have a chart?

        You see a DCT car with the same mods as a non DCT car run much better than it. That's it. There's nothing more to it. There's no guessing involved as the video shows exactly this. You're the one who's inventing numbers and figures based on NOTHING.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92ttking Click here to enlarge
        I agree with sticky
        manual just looses to much boost between shifts.
        DCT is 10x faster either way you look at it. And once a reliable upgrade comes for the clutch packs, single and dct will be game over
        Of course the DCT is much faster. People are stupid.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Dixchen Click here to enlarge
        biased? Of course he is.. He owns America's fastest S65 M3 ( the one that doesn't move Click here to enlarge) with a Gintani strengthened DCT box yet stands no chance against the mighty robotic GTR's out there... Small bird in a big boy's world ... Oh why bother....he owns this site for god's sake.
        What do you own? Oh wait, nobody cares.

        It's world's fastest S65 M3, get it right. It moved fine when it was last out whooping on everyone, get that right as well.

        Last laugh right here. Oh why bother, you're nobody.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        I agree the DCT is superior to the Manual tranny.... but there are SOOOOO many variables ignored by you even more so than sticky... gearing of each vehicle... gear car started in, aggressivness of tune, health of car, weight of cars, driver driving, dont even know what tranny the other car is lol, logs looked at, how many runs did each car just do , ETC... give me a break dude, this article is missing facts, period.
        What variables are ignored? What exactly am I supposed to do you for? It's a video of two 335's with similar mods with different transmissions. That's it. That is all there is to it.

        I'm supposed to weigh the cars for you? Weigh the drivers? Time them each with VBOXES too and make sure they both start at the same speeds? Yep, this is all in my control.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        Terry went 11.0@130 with RBs.. automatic is the best. period.
        Automatic is the best? You're delusional.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        that race shows a difference of AT LEAST 50-60 WHP... no shift makes that time up... the car doesnt stop rolling , pause , than restart when shifting... we are not talking about that much of a difference in a race like that... i am sorry its not the case....
        No shift time makes that up? Um, how does the M5 gain 3 miles per hour then and 4/10's in the 1/4 then with just a change in shift time? This is documented. Your wheel hp quote here here is nothing more than a guess because you don't like that the DCT is the superior performance choice especially in a roll on race where the automatics stall means nothing.

        Deal with it.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        i dont care about the cars. these are all 30k dollar entry level sport coupes that get $#@! on by 100s of new cars lol... I am stating the title of this article is misleading as is the conclusion you and sticky are coming too... the issue here is two simple steps that could prove this theory were not taken. Get logs from that run from each car involved and do the race again .... this hypothesis may very well be 100 accurate...

        I agree the DCT is superior to the Manual tranny.... but there are SOOOOO many variables ignored by you even more so than sticky... gearing of each vehicle... gear car started in, aggressivness of tune, health of car, weight of cars, driver driving, dont even know what tranny the other car is lol, logs looked at, how many runs did each car just do , ETC... give me a break dude, this article is missing facts, period.

        Terry went 11.0@130 with RBs.. automatic is the best. period.

        ive humiliated n54s with the same tune and more mods,why? bc n54 tuning is shotty still and these cars are inconsistant... AND Ts m5 has a piggy too with an m5 still in early development... he easily could have also been not running up to par as well as another has mentioned...

        that race shows a difference of AT LEAST 50-60 WHP... no shift makes that time up... the car doesnt stop rolling , pause , than restart when shifting... we are not talking about that much of a difference in a race like that... i am sorry its not the case....
        +10000
        100% what i was trying to say! i agree the dct is faster, but the title and entire thread is very misleading when so many facts are missing including what tranny is in the car for god sakes
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        well said sticky the dct m5 picks up 3mph, these cars were damn near 20mph apart
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        +10000
        100% what i was trying to say! i agree the dct is faster, but the title and entire thread is very misleading when so many facts are missing including what tranny is in the car for god sakes
        It's misleading? You have two videos. You are confused by them somehow? They are CGI?

        The main difference between the cars is the transmission. The result is what it is.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        well said sticky the dct m5 picks up 3mph, these cars were damn near 20mph apart
        Who knows if they are apart power wise? Who knows what they are each putting out? What fuel? What maps? etc.

        All we know is what happened.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Who knows if they are apart power wise? Who knows what they are each putting out? What fuel? What maps? etc.

        All we know is what happened.
        how can you type that but also type the "fact" that the dct car did better as a result of the transmission??
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        how can you type that but also type the "fact" that the dct car did better as a result of the transmission??
        It did do better as a result of the transmission. The degree to which it did better is clearly open up to interpretation without any supplemental details but there is no denying it is a FACT the DCT offers a performance benefit over the automatic and manual.
      1. pho_e92's Avatar
        pho_e92 -
        2 of my friends are both FBO + METH with a PTF Tune that pushes the cars to the max(19 psi). 1 is DCT and the other is Manual. When ever they race they would basically be neck and neck. dont matter if its from a dig or 60 roll. So yes the Title is misleading because its UNTRUE!!!. Yes i agree the DCT shifts faster then ANY Manual but the difference isnt how you exaggerated it to be @Sticky
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by pho_e92 Click here to enlarge
        Yes i agree the DCT shifts faster then ANY Manual but the difference isnt how you exaggerated it to be
        Exaggerate what? I posted directly in this thread what the difference is. It's 3 miles per hour and 4/10's in the 1/4 mile. What am I exaggerating?

        It makes a big difference. The DCT car does much better. That's all I stated and it's all correct.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Exaggerate what? I posted directly in this thread what the difference is. It's 3 miles per hour and 4/10's in the 1/4 mile. What am I exaggerating?

        It makes a big difference. The DCT car does much better. That's all I stated and it's all correct.
        but the vid shows 20mph and about 4 bus lengths so its mis leading
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        but the vid shows 20mph and about 4 bus lengths so its mis leading
        I'm not responsible for the video and 'exaggerating' 20 mph doesn't make much sense either.

        You have two 335's with the same mods. One has a DCT. It does well. That's it.
      1. The Ghost's Avatar
        The Ghost -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        I disagree for a few reasons... First being similar tunes is such a vague term, if logs were provided by both cars that show that both cars are running to there optimum potential than you're argument holds a bit more merit. But even still our n54 powered cars show big discrepancies from one car to the next all the time... Tuning is not the whole picture because both can request 13 and 20lbs of boost but what's car As boost curve set up at, how does his rbs hold boost because some have shown to hold much better towards redline etc.. My 135 6m never lost to another n54 ever never ran more boost or timing than anyone else, just ran strong, that happens






        And second no where have I seen any 335is running higher mph or faster ets than a few tenths 2-3 max.. What that video shows is a car down 50hp.. Iat? Fuels used, what Meth content if any.. Didn't really look into details yet but if this was science your conclusion is more of a hypothesis waiting to be proven
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        @Sticky your such a biased person when it comes to backing up your belief's , your completely closed minded to viewing the other side of anything! Obviously nobody can dispute the FACT that dct is faster and more efficient but to use this video as an example to represent that is absurd on so many levels. Starting with the FACT that we are not 100% sure that the car isn't an auto. That was a roll race they probably only went into 2 gears, there is no way on this planet that it would be bus length differences if only the transmission was difference. When you look at stock cars the trap speeds are with 2mph of each other if not the same, in the video we just saw these cars were probably 10-15mph apart! Do you personally know both cars? both drivers? were they both on kill? did someone miss a shift? was one on pump one on race gas?? WHO KNOWS!?!?!?
        I can't rep either of you any more or I would. I thought I was the only one paying attention. No way a transmission causes that hard of a pull, MID GEAR.
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        I have come to a conclusion... theyd all get WAXED by a 997... they are ALL Slow... Enjoy your cars people

        121 with no meth stock turnos is very good... think the record is 123 but 121 is def in upper 95%