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    • The difference a DCT makes - BMS Tuned 2014 F10 M5 vs. two BMS tuned E92 335 N54's with upgraded twin turbos from a roll

      The camera car in these two videos is the Burger Tuning F10 M5. This car has a BMS JB4 piggyback and downpipes. Some impressive output at the wheels has been shown from this car on a Dynojet in the in the ~630 wheel horsepower range. That is a tall order to overcome for a 335i even for one equipped with upgraded twin turbos. The 335i just is giving up too much power and torque to the M5 along with quicker shifts to the DCT.

      And the DCT is the key. The first video shows an E92 335i that has a manual transmission and it gets crushed. The second video has a similarly modded E92 335is with the RB turbo upgrades but the difference is that it is the 335is model that has the DCT transmission.

      Look at the results and see what a difference a dual clutch makes for yourself.






      This article was originally published in forum thread: The difference a DCT makes - BMS Tuned 2014 F10 M5 vs. two BMS tuned E92 335 N54's with upgraded twin turbos from a roll started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 70 Comments
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They have similar tunes and mods and it's a night and day difference. The DCT is clearly the difference.
        I disagree for a few reasons... First being similar tunes is such a vague term, if logs were provided by both cars that show that both cars are running to there optimum potential than you're argument holds a bit more merit. But even still our n54 powered cars show big discrepancies from one car to the next all the time... Tuning is not the whole picture because both can request 13 and 20lbs of boost but what's car As boost curve set up at, how does his rbs hold boost because some have shown to hold much better towards redline etc.. My 135 6m never lost to another n54 ever never ran more boost or timing than anyone else, just ran strong, that happens






        And second no where have I seen any 335is running higher mph or faster ets than a few tenths 2-3 max.. What that video shows is a car down 50hp.. Iat? Fuels used, what Meth content if any.. Didn't really look into details yet but if this was science your conclusion is more of a hypothesis waiting to be proven
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
        Too many variables...I ran my buddies IS and we have the same mods and it's a drivers race. He jumped out half a car or so and I'd real him back in...if I $#@!ed up a shift it was game over though.
        It's not too many variables. The major difference between the two is the transmission.

        You and your buddy had the exact same tune and exact same turbo upgrade?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        I disagree for a few reasons... First being similar tunes is such a vague term, if logs were provided by both cars that show that both cars are running to there optimum potential than you're argument holds a bit more merit. But even still our n54 powered cars show big discrepancies from one car to the next all the time... Tuning is not the whole picture because both can request 13 and 20lbs of boost but what's car As boost curve set up at, how does his rbs hold boost because some have shown to hold much better towards redline etc.. My 135 6m never lost to another n54 ever never ran more boost or timing than anyone else, just ran strong, that happens
        Well I disagree with you. We know the DCT shifts faster. We have two 335's with JB4's and RB turbos. One is a DCT the other isn't. The DCT car does much better and it's a huge difference. The biggest variable between the two is the transmission.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        Didn't really look into details yet but if this was science your conclusion is more of a hypothesis waiting to be proven
        No, not really. Your conclusion is the one waiting to proven as the actual video evidence of what actually happened supports mine. It's been proven time and time again DCT's are faster. So... yep.
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not too many variables. The major difference between the two is the transmission.

        You and your buddy had the exact same tune and exact same turbo upgrade?
        Incorrect. Mods were the same, turbo's were the same tranny was not.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
        Incorrect. Mods were the same, turbo's were the same tranny was not.
        What is incorrect?

        So the mods were the same just like here yet the transmissions were not?

        So what is the too many variables again? That's reducing the variables about as much as possible.

        Neither you or your buddy was running a DCT right unlike this comparison right?
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What is incorrect?

        So the mods were the same just like here yet the transmissions were not?

        So what is the too many variables again? That's reducing the variables about as much as possible.

        Neither you or your buddy was running a DCT right unlike this comparison right?
        Your first point is incorrect as @ChuckD05 pointed out. I didn't want to go there because it's run what you brung. To make a statement that the transmission was the cause for such a large gap vs the manual is misleading, again as Chuckd05 stated.

        As history has shown this will turn out into a long winded argument. So I'm done, gonna go hang with the crew and with 600+rwhp will still be the slow guy of the group.

        Laters
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
        To make a statement that the transmission was the cause for such a large gap vs the manual is misleading, again as Chuckd05 stated.
        It isn't misleading at all especially if you look into the difference between say the manual M5 and the DCT M5.

        Once again, the major difference between the two is the transmission. There is no such thing as two exact same cars even if they are stock as there still are differences in break in, tires, wheels, driver weight, whatever.

        You have a JB4 on both, you have RB's on both, you have both cars at a roll on racing event and I assume there to race and trying to win?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
        As history has shown this will turn out into a long winded argument.
        There is no argument. What happened is what happened in the videos and the DCT shifts quicker, period.
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        some n54s run tunes they hate though... the tuning as I am seeing with RBs is very inconsistent and temperamental... for various reasons like hardware, fuel mixtures (im done mixing gas bc of this) adaptions, etc...

        I have shown up to my buddies before and went for cruises and have messed around and beat the same car twice by 5-6 car differences and the only thing that changed is the day of the week. Cobb flat lining post shift is the complete turn off for me using them which may or may not be a more consistent tune. But it will from what i see be consistently slower.

        I do not doubt that the DCT is quicker but saying why this car got his butt whoooped compared to the other car isn't valid until either logs are shown from that run or this is shown again and again and again..

        But the m3 dct vs 6m has been proven, but you do get the random videos popping up showing them close or no diff and those are the variations that just exists.

        T trapped 130, I trapped 126, LM trapped 127 decades ago, people have trapped 122 with rbs.. etc...
      1. zod's Avatar
        zod -
        i also have to agree to an extent, its not just the gear box
        either car has something up with it, not shifting right etc

        that large of a gap and continuous pulling is not due to gearbox alone

        also maybe the m5 wasn't consistent? just throwing it out there
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        @Sticky your such a biased person when it comes to backing up your belief's , your completely closed minded to viewing the other side of anything! Obviously nobody can dispute the FACT that dct is faster and more efficient but to use this video as an example to represent that is absurd on so many levels. Starting with the FACT that we are not 100% sure that the car isn't an auto. That was a roll race they probably only went into 2 gears, there is no way on this planet that it would be bus length differences if only the transmission was difference. When you look at stock cars the trap speeds are with 2mph of each other if not the same, in the video we just saw these cars were probably 10-15mph apart! Do you personally know both cars? both drivers? were they both on kill? did someone miss a shift? was one on pump one on race gas?? WHO KNOWS!?!?!?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        @Sticky your such a biased person when it comes to backing up your belief's , your completely closed minded to viewing the other side of anything! Obviously nobody can dispute the FACT that dct is faster and more efficient but to use this video as an example to represent that is absurd on so many levels. Starting with the FACT that we are not 100% sure that the car isn't an auto. That was a roll race they probably only went into 2 gears, there is no way on this planet that it would be bus length differences if only the transmission was difference. When you look at stock cars the trap speeds are with 2mph of each other if not the same, in the video we just saw these cars were probably 10-15mph apart! Do you personally know both cars? both drivers? were they both on kill? did someone miss a shift? was one on pump one on race gas?? WHO KNOWS!?!?!?
        Yep I'm so biased that the video shows what it does.

        The DCT is faster what do you want me to do for you?

        Whether the other 335 is auto or manual doesn't matter as either or is slower.

        Of course both cars aren't the exact same but it's kind of funny how much better the DCT car does.

        By the way, here's the DCT versus manual numbers for the M5. Sorry to burst your bubble but the difference is bigger than what you are making up out of thin air which is real bias: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...er-than-manual

        OMG oh no a DCT car did better I'm so biased by posting the video I didn't create. Boo hoo.
      1. klipseracer's Avatar
        klipseracer -
        I like boobies.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        So your saying it doesn't matter that there not exactly the same? so if the dct was making another 80whp it doesn't matter?? So if i find a vid of a manual winning against a dct with the same turbo it means manual is faster? based on what your presenting this is what your suggesting . Thats what i mean by biased
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Also every race has facts, what if the car that lost makes 80more whp but the guy missed a shift? How can this video be used as evidence without knowing all that information?? Because your a biased $#@! that doesn't care what the facts are as long as it illustrates your own views because your biased.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
        Your first point is incorrect as @ChuckD05 pointed out. I didn't want to go there because it's run what you brung. To make a statement that the transmission was the cause for such a large gap vs the manual is misleading, again as Chuckd05 stated.

        As history has shown this will turn out into a long winded argument. So I'm done, gonna go hang with the crew and with 600+rwhp will still be the slow guy of the group.

        Laters
        there is no reasoning with this man!
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        @Sticky the funniest thing about you is how much you admire a dct for all its performance benefits but you hate the gtr for all its technology that gives it all the benefits it has. The gtr has proven time and time again to do more with less(other than weight) but you can't respect that. There are purist that despise a dct and say its not fun and its not engaging kinda like all the things you say about the gtr! if you want the best weapon it is in fact a dct if you want the fastest all around car the gtr is the best weapon but you don't like it therefore its bad! Yet you love your car that as of right now runs a 0.00 @ 0mph because it hasn't made a pass. logical….
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        holy crap, you guys are $#@!ing annoying. what's so hard to figure out both cars are similarly modded and both have different transmissions..it both cars are similar is this not a driver's/transmission's race? let's say both drivers were greatness the dct will pull harder it's not that hard to grasp.. look at dragtimes for stock cars that come in dct and mt it's a clear cut difference..

        some of the $#@! you guys say...
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
        holy crap, you guys are $#@!ing annoying. what's so hard to figure out both cars are similarly modded and both have different transmissions..it both cars are similar is this not a driver's/transmission's race? let's say both drivers were greatness the dct will pull harder it's not that hard to grasp.. look at dragtimes for stock cars that come in dct and mt it's a clear cut difference..

        some of the $#@! you guys say...
        do you $#@! the same as the next guy? your both human beings with the same genetic make up...
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        do you $#@! the same as the next guy? your both human beings with the same genetic make up...
        do you HONESTLY think if you didn't put the same driver in both cars the results wouldn't be similar? like come on now.. i even stated if both drivers are greatness this is pretty accurate. it seems a buncha you guys are regretting not buying a 335is the same way years ago butthurt 335i owners tried to compare their cars to the m3..
      1. Dixchen's Avatar
        Dixchen -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        @Sticky your such a biased person when it comes to backing up your belief's , your completely closed minded to viewing the other side of anything! Obviously nobody can dispute the FACT that dct is faster and more efficient but to use this video as an example to represent that is absurd on so many levels. Starting with the FACT that we are not 100% sure that the car isn't an auto. That was a roll race they probably only went into 2 gears, there is no way on this planet that it would be bus length differences if only the transmission was difference. When you look at stock cars the trap speeds are with 2mph of each other if not the same, in the video we just saw these cars were probably 10-15mph apart! Do you personally know both cars? both drivers? were they both on kill? did someone miss a shift? was one on pump one on race gas?? WHO KNOWS!?!?!?

        biased? Of course he is.. He owns America's fastest S65 M3 ( the one that doesn't move Click here to enlarge) with a Gintani strengthened DCT box yet stands no chance against the mighty robotic GTR's out there... Small bird in a big boy's world ... Oh why bother....he owns this site for god's sake.