Close

    • Does BMW owe us an i8 M or M1? The case for a BMW M supercar

      It is getting really hard as an enthusiast to remain a fan of BMW and the M brand. At one time a shining symbol of the automotive enthusiast, the everyday supercar, the pinnacle of the Ultimate Driving Machine ideal, M and BMW as a whole have taken a tumble in the aforementioned areas. Yes, times change and companies need to evolve but there is no reason for a company that claims it 'only makes one thing' to abandon making that thing.


      Everyone is aware of the BMW i brand and its 'electric mobility' focus. You want to build cars with less horsepower than a blender and that offer an equally annoying aural experience? Go ahead BMW, knock yourself out. BMW is committing tremendous resources to this project and betting big the i brand will pay off.

      It just may do so but with 100,000 i3 units needing to be sold to break even and 10,000 a year for the i8 talk about a huge risk. Talk about a huge investment. If BMW is putting so many of their resource to work for the i brand why in the world is M not getting a chance to utilize this huge resource allocation and investment to its fullest? Why produce a lightweight halo sports car with tons of high-tech carbon fiber and aluminum only to avoid giving it to the division you already have with a storied history that could actually make the real Ultimate Driving Machine with the platform?

      BMW says an M version of the i8 does not make sense. M says they want a chance to build one. It seems there is an internal power struggle regarding BMW's philosophy and direction. Why is there a problem here? Let BMW i do their thing and let BMW M do its thing or why even have the two divisions? If BMW M uses the i8 chassis the BMW i8 does not become any less 'i' does it? Perhaps BMW is worried that people actually will opt for a high performance version of the car if given the choice as what other reason is there to not further utilize a platform when BMW is all about platform sharing and increasing sales volume these days? BMW is scared to give customers to the choice which means they may not even believe their own crap. They could but won't give customers an M option.

      You want to build a front wheel drive BMW and plaster M badged all over it? Fine.

      You want to race a car you do not even sell and look like complete hypocrites? Fine.

      You want to build big and heavy M SUV's to pad the bottom line? Fine.

      You want to add yet another and even bigger SUV to the lineup? Fine.

      You want to increase Mini and BMW platform sharing creating more front wheel drive BMW's? Fine.

      You want to kill off the bespoke M motor to share components across motors for maximum profit? Fine.

      You want to charge customers twice for engine software to unlock power already sitting there? Fine.

      You want to lock enthusiasts out of their cars with complex encryption so as to avoid the possibility of spending a single penny on additional warranty claims? Fine.

      You want to continue to push GT variants on us despite their failure in the marketplace? Fine.

      You want to cut enthusiast models or hardcore CSL variants of the M3/M4 out of the lineup? Fine.

      You want to abuse your most loyal US fans by refusing to bring over the M3 GTS / CRT / CSL models while having no problem milking us for SUV profits? Fine.

      You want to take advantage of US enthusiasts with marked up 'limited edition' M models that offer nothing more than cheap cosmetic changes? Fine.

      You want to avoid taking on Mercedes-Benz AMG Black Series models? Fine.

      You want to produce M cars without M motors? Fine.

      You want to dilute the M brand? Fine.

      You want to sell your soul? Fine.

      We can forgive this, ALL OF IT, if you just once, just once, didn't spit in enthusiast's faces while robbing them blind. BMW, if you never had the intention of producing a new M1 why in the world did you call the M version of the E82 1-Series the 1M specifically to not use the M1 moniker? Obviously you know what M1 means. Before the 1M ever was named or came out BimmerBoost wrote this about the name:

      By not naming this vehicle the M1, BMW would be making a stronger statement than simply taking the path that is easiest and most readily identifiable to the average person. By simply giving it a name that breaks the naming convention used for other numerically designated models, M3/M5, and naming it a 1M, they will be making a strong statement to their core audience. A statement which decisively tells the world BMW has not forgotten they once protected the M badge. BMW has not forgotten M1 belongs on the flagship Motorsport model. BMW has not forgotten they once stated SUV's were not fitting for the M division. BMW has not forgotten they once refused to take the path of least resistance with their motors. If they do not use the M1 namesake, it means BMW has not forgotten that their history means more than their marketing.

      BMW, you did the right thing in naming the 1M the way you did despite thinking the average buyer might not be intelligent enough to comprehend why you broke the standard M naming convention (and with all the people who call it an M1 that says a lot). It is time to do the right thing again and use the M1 name you protected for a reason. It is time to build the Ultimate Driving Machine. It is now or never, either you produce an enthusiast car or just admit you no longer build 'only one thing.' Build the i8 M or M1 as you have put your hardcore and loyal fans through enough and yet we are still here. If you do not, we won't be for much longer.

      That is absolutely fine. In 2014 the badge on the back of a German car representing the Ultimate Driving Machine says AMG Black Series, not M.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: Does BMW owe us an i8 M or M1? The case for a BMW M supercar started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 41 Comments
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If it ruined it why call it the 1M?
        If by some miracle they do come out with a super car and call it the M1 it's just going to confuse things haveing a 1m and a m1
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        If by some miracle they do come out with a super car and call it the M1 it's just going to confuse things haveing a 1m and a m1
        Confuse stupid people, maybe. I don't see what is so hard to understand about the difference between an M1 and 1M.
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Ehh maybe your right... I hope your right but I doubt anything will happen
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        Ehh maybe your right... I hope your right but I doubt anything will happen
        You think BMW would notice if I gave them a check for $100,000 versus $000,001?
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Yeah and that's why they aren't making a super car. They don't see profit in it like the see in fwd gas savers
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        That does hit on the issue really. They just want money.

        Why do they push stuff that doesn't sell like the 5 GT though? They probably lost more on that car with inventory and development then it would take for M to create a limited run of i8 M's with higher margins.
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That does hit on the issue really. They just want money.

        Why do they push stuff that doesn't sell like the 5 GT though? They probably lost more on that car with inventory and development then it would take for M to create a limited run of i8 M's with higher margins.
        It would make sense to drop those cars but who knows the logic behind bmw now
      1. whoosh's Avatar
        whoosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DavidV Click here to enlarge
        In 2015 the EU law dictates that on average every car sold in the EU can at a max produce 130 grams of CO2 per km.
        For car manufacturers that exceed this limit by more than 35% must pay a fine for every car registered.
        You do the math.
        BMW is gonna push this i Brand like crazy to create air for their moneymakers, which produce far more CO2 then 130 grams/km.

        In 2021 the limit for cars will drop to 95 grams/km, and they have to consume (on average) no more than 3,9 liters of fuel per 100 km max.
        There is a mathematical loophole for cars producing less than 50 grams/km counting double in the calculations, but that is temporally and that effect will decline over time.
        I know it's not what you want to hear, but these are the rules European Car manufacturers will have to obey to and are forced to implement to the cars they produce.
        Porsche has to adhere to the same EU standards...

        But where are the FWD Porsche cars?

        Porsche's parallel to the i8 holds the lap record (until P1 sets an official time) at the 'ring and returns 70+ MPG in its efficient mode.

        The Macan turbo ran an unofficial 8:15 on the 'ring... And still returns mid-20's MPG (US). Where's BMW's answer to that?

        The GT3 is still naturally aspirated, as are the Carrera and Boxster and Cayman models. The latest iterations make more power, and are more efficient at the same time.

        BMW has to have the i cars to improve their average because the majority of their lineup has gotten too big and heavy over the years. If the 3 and 1 series were the same in weight and efficiency as the 991/981 for Porsche, that alone would help offset the bulkier 5 and 7 series cars.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Plenty of companies offer naturally aspirated and forced induction cars. BMW chooses not to in order to share parts to keep costs down plus make a killing on offering 'performance' software. It's all about money.
      1. leo985i's Avatar
        leo985i -
        $#@! BMW. American muscle is in my future.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leo985i Click here to enlarge
        $#@! BMW. American muscle is in my future.
        Word.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        I don't see what the fuss is about. I feel like the M3 is the only car built that led its class. And it still does. Other than that, I don't care much for BMW. But for all those that are going crazy about the direction that BMW is going, there are other car brands to switch to. Very simple.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        But for all those that are going crazy about the direction that BMW is going, there are other car brands to switch to. Very simple.
        Isn't that the article's conclusion?
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Isn't that the article's conclusion?
        I guess I am agreeing with the article then.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        I guess I am agreeing with the article then.
        Clearly the author knows what he's talking about then.
      1. DavidV's Avatar
        DavidV -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
        Porsche has to adhere to the same EU standards...

        But where are the FWD Porsche cars?
        Most of "Porsche" cars are FWD.
        That's because Porsche is not a single company any more, they are part of the VAG. Just like Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini. All the UPs, Polo blue motions, A1's and A2's are making up for the CO2 of the high end brands.
        Read here
        Most of "Porsche's" FWD cars go under the brandnames like Audi, SEAT, Škoda and Volkswagen
        Just be glad in Porsche's case that brand name was strong enough to keep. It could have been a VW sign on front if Volkswagen had done the same to Porsche as GM has done to Daewoo (in Europe) rebadging them as Chevrolet.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
        BMW has to have the i cars to improve their average because the majority of their lineup has gotten too big and heavy over the years.
        BMW, as a single car manufacturer, has divided resources to design, engineer and produce it's own e-brand to cope with upcoming regulations, and in the process tries to cover all niches to make money. Just give some credit where it's due.
        You keep comparing the 2 companies, but Porsches are inherently race cars, and BMW's just are not.
        It's apples and oranges, really. As much as you want, you just can not compare these brands like you do.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Sad as it is, you forgot to add even one more thing they're apparently developing: a 9 series (was announced on the other forum today). The "insider" said that this was the new BMW DNA. Meaning producing bigger and heavier cars as well as more FWD $#@!e. Which would be ok with me - same as you're stating - if at least they also made true performance models and sportscars. Instead they leave that mostly to their competitors: Audi TT (no real competitor @ BMW, Z4 is something different IMO), Audi R8 (haha), Mercedes SLS (haha), Mercedes GTC (dito)...and let's not even talk about Porsche that now also belong to the VAG group.

        Anyway, as much as I wanted my new car be a BMW again, I've switched to a NA 2-seater that will be delivered in 2 weeks. Way to go, BMW.

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Sad as it is, you forgot to add even one more thing they're apparently developing: a 9 series (was announced on the other forum today). The "insider" said that this was the new BMW DNA. Meaning producing bigger and heavier cars as well as more FWD $#@!e. Which would be ok with me - same as you're stating - if at least they also made true performance models and sportscars. Instead they leave that mostly to their competitors: Audi TT (no real competitor @ BMW, Z4 is something different IMO), Audi R8 (haha), Mercedes SLS (haha), Mercedes GTC (dito)...and let's not even talk about Porsche that now also belong to the VAG group.

        Anyway, as much as I wanted my new car be a BMW again, I've switched to a NA 2-seater that will be delivered in 2 weeks. Way to go, BMW.

        Alpina_B3_Lux
        That insider gets a lot wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he is just invented. An 8-Series makes more sense than a 9 ever would...
      1. DavidV's Avatar
        DavidV -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That insider gets a lot wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if he is just invented. An 8-Series makes more sense than a 9 ever would...
        I read today this 9-series will be sharing the platform used for the Rollce Royce Phantom, which actually makes more sense.
        So it could be possible there will be a 9 series in the making.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        If sharing the Phantom platform sure but what does BMW need a 9 for with... the Phantom there? Make a new 8 based on it as there is no CL competitor.