• German, Japanese, and American battle royale - 2014 Nissan GT-R Track Edition vs. Porsche 911 Turbo S vs. Camaro Z/28

      Is the Camaro Z28 overpriced at $75k? It has the venerable LS7 from the C6 Z06 at 505 horsepower clearly giving up power and torque to its German and Japanese rivals. It also has no turbos and no dual clutch transmission. Just a big 427 cubic inch naturally aspirated single overhead cam pushrod American V8 mated to the classic manual transmission. Is the Z28 in over its head against the $117,305 Nissan GT-R Track Edition and $182,050 911 Turbo S?


      Nope. And that $75k base price all of a sudden looks like a value in this company, doesn't it? What that money buys you is a Camaro that takes the roadcourse very seriously. 305/30/19 Pirelli Pzero Trofeo R tires are featured all around. Yes, 305's up front. There also are 15.5 inch carbon ceramic brakes rotors up front as well. The GT-R is the only one in this group without carbon ceramic brakes.

      The Camaro is clearly set up for roadcourse duty. It is also the slowest car of the group. A 12.3 @ 117.2 in the 1/4 mile certainly is not slow but it trails behind the GT-R with its 11.0 @ 125.1 run and the 911 Turbo S with its 10.9 @ 123.7. The 911 Turbo S again shows abnormally slow 1/4 mile numbers dying for some reason past 100 miles per hour despite being the first car to get there. Is the ECU cutting power? It sure looks like it.

      So the Camaro does not have a fancy dual clutch transmission, it does not have all wheel drive, and it isn't the most powerful. It isn't a lightweight either weighing 3857 pounds. 23 pounds lighter than the Nissan GT-R but 247 pounds heavier than the 911 Turbo S.

      That makes the Camaro beating the GT-R and the 911 Turbo S around the roadcourse all the more impressive because the car is doing it in the turns and not due to a power advantage. The cheaper rear wheel drive manual American car beats the more expensive dual clutch all wheel drive foreign robots that the automotive world seems to constantly rave about. There is some poetic justice in there somewhere.




      MotorTrend picks the Camaro as the best car in this test followed by the 911 Turbo S and then the GT-R. The GT-R is said to feel too controlled. In other words, it's boring. Who was it that told you it's a soulless robot? The 911 Turbo S also suffers from missing an 'X factor' in the driving experience. The GT3 would have been a better choice and addressed the driver involvement criticism. Now you likely understand why Porsche offers a GT3 and why horsepower is not everything.

      MotorTrend says the Camaro Z28 is GM at its best and it is tough to disagree. GM is definitely on a bit of a roll right now. A Camaro that is a better driver's car than a Porsche 911 Turbo and beats it around the roadcourse for $100k less is, well, unheard of until now. It is now the Porsche that is the dragster and the not the American 'muscle' car.

      Good for you GM. Way to beat the world's best without even needing to match the cost of entry. Thank you for building the Z28.

      3rd Place: Nissan GT-R Track Edition

      Old soldiers never die, they just fade away. Still a monster, but long in the tooth. The 2015 refresh arrives none too soon.

      2nd Place: Porsche 911 Turbo S


      One of the quickest production cars of all time, the Turbo S is caught in a weird space between grand touring and track attack.

      1st Place: Chevrolet Camaro Z/28


      Impressive. Most impressive. The General flexes its red, white, and blue muscles. Simply put, this is Chevy at its best.




      2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 2014 Nissan GT-R Track Edition 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
      POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS
      DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD Front-engine, AWD Rear-engine, AWD
      ENGINE TYPE 90-deg V-8, aluminum block/heads Twin-turbo 60-deg V-6, aluminum block/heads Twin-turbo flat-6, aluminum block/heads
      VALVETRAIN OHV, 2 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl
      DISPLACEMENT 427.9 cu in/7011 cc 231.8 cu in/3799 cc 231.9 cu in/3800 cc
      COMPRESSION RATIO 11.0:1 9.0:1 9.8:1
      POWER (SAE NET) 505 hp @ 6100 rpm* 545 hp @ 6400 rpm 560 hp @ 6500 rpm
      TORQUE (SAE NET) 481 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm* 463 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm 516 lb-ft @ 2100 rpm**
      REDLINE 7000 rpm 7000 rpm 7000 rpm
      WEIGHT TO POWER 7.6 lb/hp 7.1 lb/hp 6.4 lb/hp
      TRANSMISSION 6-speed manual 6-speed twin-cl auto 7-speed twin-cl auto
      AXLE/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO 3.91:1/2.46:1 3.70:1/2.95:1 3.44:1/2.14:1
      SUSPENSION, FRONT; REAR Struts, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, anti-roll bar Control arms, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar Struts, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar
      STEERING RATIO 16.1:1 15.0:1 12.3:1-15.0:1
      TURNS LOCK-TO-LOCK 2.5 2.5 2.5
      BRAKES, F;R 15.5-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc; 15.3-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc, ABS 15.4-in vented, drilled disc; 15.0-in vented, drilled disc, ABS 16.1-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc; 15.4-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc, ABS
      WHEELS, F;R 11.0 x 19-in; 11.5 x 19-in, forged aluminum 9.5 x 20 in; 10.5 x 20 in, forged aluminum 9.0 x 20-in; 11.5 x 20-in forged aluminum
      TIRES, F;R 305/30R19 102Y
      Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R
      255/40R20 97Y; 285/35R20 100Y
      Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT600 DSST CTT
      245/35R20 91Y; 305/30R20 103Y
      Pirelli P Zero
      DIMENSIONS
      WHEELBASE 112.3 in 109.4 in 96.5 in
      TRACK, F/R 66.1/64.7 in 62.6/63.0 in 60.6/62.6 in
      LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 192.3 x 76.9 x 52.4 in 183.8 x 74.6 x 53.9 in 177.4 x 74.0 x 51.0 in
      TURNING CIRCLE 37.7 ft (est) 36.6 ft 34.8 ft
      CURB WEIGHT 3857 lb 3880 lb 3610 lb
      WEIGHT DIST, F/R 53/47% 55/45% 39/61%
      SEATING CAPACITY 4 2 4
      HEADROOM, F/R 37.4/35.3 in 38.1/- in 37.8/26.0 in
      LEGROOM, F/R 42.4/29.9 in 44.6/- in 66.7/26.0 in (est)
      SHOULDER ROOM, F/R 56.9/42.5 in 54.3/- in 53.4/47.3 in
      CARGO VOLUME 11.3 cu ft 8.8 cu ft 9.2 cu ft
      TEST DATA
      ACCELERATION TO MPH
      0-30 1.7 sec 1.0 sec 1.0 sec
      0-40 2.3 1.5 1.4
      0-50 3.1 2.0 1.9
      0-60 4.0 2.7 2.6
      0-70 5.0 3.5 3.4
      0-80 6.2 4.5 4.4
      0-90 7.5 5.6 5.6
      0-100 9.0 6.9 6.8
      PASSING, 45-65 MPH 1.8 1.4 1.3
      QUARTER MILE 12.3 sec @ 117.2 mph 11.0 sec @ 125.1 mph 10.9 sec @ 123.7 mph
      BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 97 ft 94 ft 100 ft
      LATERAL ACCELERATION 1.06 g (avg) 1.02 g (avg) 1.04 g (avg)
      MT FIGURE EIGHT 23.6 sec @ 0.84 g (avg) 23.4 sec @ 0.89 g (avg) 23.0 sec @ 0.93 g (avg)
      2.3-MI ROAD COURSE LAP 96.17 sec 96.45 sec 96.34 sec
      TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 1500 rpm 2150 rpm 1650 rpm
      CONSUMER INFO
      BASE PRICE $75,000 $117,305 $182,050
      PRICE AS TESTED $76,150 $117,590 $199,065
      STABILITY/TRACTION CONTROL Yes/yes Yes/yes Yes/yes
      AIRBAGS Dual front, front side, f/r rear curtain Dual front, front side, front curtain Dual front, front side, front curtain, front knee
      BASIC WARRANTY 3 yrs/36,000 mi 3 yrs/36,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
      POWERTRAIN WARRANTY 5 yrs/100,000 mi 5 yrs/60,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
      ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE 5 yrs/100,000 mi 5 yrs/60,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
      FUEL CAPACITY 19.0 gal 19.5 gal 16.9 gal
      EPA CITY/HWY/COMB ECON 13/19/15 mpg (est) 16/23/19 mpg 17/24/20 mpg
      ENERGY CONS, CITY/HWY 259/177 kW-hrs/100 mi (est) 211/147 kW-hrs/100 mi 198/140 kW-hrs/100 mi
      CO2 EMISSIONS, COMB 1.28 lb/mi (est) 1.05 lb/mi 0.99 lb/mi
      RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded premium Unleaded premium Unleaded premium
      *SAE certified
      **553 lb-ft w/temporary 20-sec overboost


      This article was originally published in forum thread: German, Japanese, and American battle royale - 2014 Nissan GT-R Track Edition vs. Porsche 911 Turbo S vs. Camaro Z/28 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 56 Comments
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I am a bit surprised - I know it's not all about straight-line speed, but something doesn't seem right with some of the numbers. Look at the 0-100 MPH (0-160 km/h):


        0-100:

        Z/28 9.0s
        GT-R 6.9s (a full 2.1 seconds quicker)
        911 6.8s (2.2s quicker)


        The 1/4 mile pretty much keeps up with this same result - albeit having a bit higher weight, and a lesser power to weight ratio, the Z/28 seems like it's making everything up in the corners/braking.

        I guess the suspension is probably setup as a complete race-car, and not a streetable car? That's the only thing I can think of for the win. I don't understand how else this is possible. It's a MUCH slower accelerating car, but must handle leap years better than the others?
        thats what i based my initial comment off of... thats a lot of power lost in the straights. But i guess the suspension is incredible...
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        You guys must be new to the road course thing.... this isn't a drag race from one turn to the next. I've seen 120hp spec miatas, that would be lucky to run a 15 second 1/4, lap 600hp street cars all day without breaking sweat. The key is maintaining your speed through the turn and coming out fast.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        thats what i based my initial comment off of... thats a lot of power lost in the straights. But i guess the suspension is incredible...
        Read up on the Multimatic DSSV dampers the Z/28 is using. They really are a big step forward in damping technology, take a look at the list of professional racecars using this exact same type of damper (I'll give you a hint, it's been dominating Formula 1, Le Mans, Indy, etc. for the past few years). Simply put, Multimatic's dampers allow the engineers to separately set compression and rebound for low and high speed forces. You can set the car to be very stiff to keep it flat through corners and resist dive/squat under braking/acceleration while still allowing it to absorb bumps very well. This isn't an entirely new concept but it happens to be a very competitive application of digressive damping. There are only two street cars right now that have Multimatic DSSV dampers, the Camaro Z/28 and the million dollar Aston Martin One-77.

        The hi/low speed compression and rebound being individually adjustable is key to making full use of those giant, sticky tires. A traditional spring/damper combo that was stiff enough to take advantage of the grip those tires generate would be insane for a street car.

        I can't wait to see what this type of suspension can do in the C7 Z06.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        I am a bit surprised - I know it's not all about straight-line speed, but something doesn't seem right with some of the numbers. Look at the 0-100 MPH (0-160 km/h):


        0-100:

        Z/28 9.0s
        GT-R 6.9s (a full 2.1 seconds quicker)
        911 6.8s (2.2s quicker)


        The 1/4 mile pretty much keeps up with this same result - albeit having a bit higher weight, and a lesser power to weight ratio, the Z/28 seems like it's making everything up in the corners/braking.

        I guess the suspension is probably setup as a complete race-car, and not a streetable car? That's the only thing I can think of for the win. I don't understand how else this is possible. It's a MUCH slower accelerating car, but must handle leap years better than the others?
        It's not to hard to understand the 0-100 advantage is partially traction based. If you saw the 100-150 numbers they would tell a bit of a different story I think.

        It's still a street car.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's not to hard to understand the 0-100 advantage is partially traction based. If you saw the 100-150 numbers they would tell a bit of a different story I think.

        It's still a street car.

        It's gotta be, otherwise it just doesn't add up. Not a chance that Z is that "slow" - either that, or they got a lemon to test with (doubtful)
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        You guys must be new to the road course thing.... this isn't a drag race from one turn to the next. I've seen 120hp spec miatas, that would be lucky to run a 15 second 1/4, lap 600hp street cars all day without breaking sweat. The key is maintaining your speed through the turn and coming out fast.
        No, not new at all - the numbers are just super far apart, and similar weighted cars - that's all that is meant. If those numbers tell the whole story (doubtful) - all that I am saying is the Z handles incredibly well for a street car. Going against two all-wheel drive - that are MUCH faster in the straights (off these numbers) with torque vectoring? Doesn't make sense.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        No, not new at all - the numbers are just super far apart, and similar weighted cars - that's all that is meant. If those numbers tell the whole story (doubtful) - all that I am saying is the Z handles incredibly well for a street car. Going against two all-wheel drive - that are MUCH faster in the straights (off these numbers) with torque vectoring? Doesn't make sense.
        It's making it all up in the turns and transitions.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's making it all up in the turns and transitions.
        For some reason, I really want to try this car out. Not sure if it's all the marketing that GM has been doing, or this article or what - but I really want to try one... In other words, GM has said nothing but this car is going to be amazing, and I want to see for myself. Click here to enlarge
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        No, not new at all - the numbers are just super far apart, and similar weighted cars - that's all that is meant. If those numbers tell the whole story (doubtful) - all that I am saying is the Z handles incredibly well for a street car. Going against two all-wheel drive - that are MUCH faster in the straights (off these numbers) with torque vectoring? Doesn't make sense.
        Well, you quoted the gap in 0 - 100 times as your reasoning for why this time is hard to believe....

        Number of times "0 - anything" comes into play on a road course: Zero.

        One thing I would be curious to know: Given the tuneability of the Z28's dampers, did GM have an engineer at the track who dialed it in while leaving the other cars running their off the shelf settings? I'd bet 'yes' if there were money on the line.
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        I think what I love most about this car is...for the most part in aftermarket it's easier and more "fun" to spend your money increasing power for the straight line. Lets face it, it's not nearly as fun spending money on a BBK, coilovers, etc. as it is on a turbo kit. Plus, it's much more work to make a car handle better than it is to just make it go fast. IMO that makes the Z/28 a full-on homerun. I mean it doesn't take much to see 500whp out of a LS7, or even 600whp, power is cheap and easy on that car, and Chevy couldn't have picked a better motor. It's a driver's car through and through.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mjmarovi Click here to enlarge
        I think what I love most about this car is...for the most part in aftermarket it's easier and more "fun" to spend your money increasing power for the straight line. Lets face it, it's not nearly as fun spending money on a BBK, coilovers, etc. as it is on a turbo kit. Plus, it's much more work to make a car handle better than it is to just make it go fast. IMO that makes the Z/28 a full-on homerun. I mean it doesn't take much to see 500whp out of a LS7, or even 600whp, power is cheap and easy on that car, and Chevy couldn't have picked a better motor. It's a driver's car through and through.
        Good point... this car will only get faster around the road course as you throw more power at it for a long time. I don't think I'd go past a H/C/I LS7, but that should be enough for over 600whp that you can rag on all day long without breaking a sweat.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Well, you quoted the gap in 0 - 100 times as your reasoning for why this time is hard to believe....

        Number of times "0 - anything" comes into play on a road course: Zero.

        One thing I would be curious to know: Given the tuneability of the Z28's dampers, did GM have an engineer at the track who dialed it in while leaving the other cars running their off the shelf settings? I'd bet 'yes' if there were money on the line.
        It's not zero. Click here to enlarge

        There is no way it can be zero. You are 100% right, and I understand what you are saying - a 200 HP Miata can kill a 450 HP Challenger (as an example) on a tight road course where the speed in the corners make up more than 50% of the total average speed of the entire course.

        If you put a race-spec Miata on a track like Road America, it doesn't matter how well it handles - as there is too much time it is going to lose on the straights to a more powerful car that doesn't handle as well in complex corners (say, a Corvette). It all depends on the track. If power and speed didn't matter (0% of time) - I could take my go-kart to any track and beat any car and win 100% of the time. It's not black/white - but this is pointless to argue.

        I was trying to say that you have 3 cars are similar in weight and similar in power; the Z/28 has an extreme difference in acceleration (by those numbers, it's extreme). Every time a car is accelerating out of a corner, this is important. Given the difference in the 1/4 mile and 0-100 times, you would think that the faster accelerating cars AND the cars having torque vectoring AWD would have TOTAL advantage.

        This wasn't true, and I find that this doesn't make much sense given the numbers we are seeing. That's all I meant.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Looking at the velocity/time graph: http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...meschart-1.jpg

        It's completely dominating the other 2 cars in almost every corner, yet has much slower entry speeds. It's basically the opposite of what you would expect after looking at the numbers from the car. I don't know how else to word what I am trying to say, and am not taking away anything that the Z has done. I find it interesting - that's all.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        One thing I would be curious to know: Given the tuneability of the Z28's dampers, did GM have an engineer at the track who dialed it in while leaving the other cars running their off the shelf settings? I'd bet 'yes' if there were money on the line
        What I read leads me to no. Randy Pobst adjusted the tire pressure a bit and that is it apparently. He wanted to adjust it further and do more laps but they didn't let him for whatever reason.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Looking at the velocity/time graph: http://www.benzboost.com/images/impo...meschart-1.jpg

        It's completely dominating the other 2 cars in almost every corner, yet has much slower entry speeds. It's basically the opposite of what you would expect after looking at the numbers from the car. I don't know how else to word what I am trying to say, and am not taking away anything that the Z has done. I find it interesting - that's all.
        Great little chart... Pretty easy to see where the Z28 is winning it on this. What I'd love to see, and I'm sure they could do with their GPS data, is an animated version that included the little dots moving across the X-axis with time.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Great little chart... Pretty easy to see where the Z28 is winning it on this. What I'd love to see, and I'm sure they could do with their GPS data, is an animated version that included the little dots moving across the X-axis with time.
        Yeah, this car is definitely kicking ass in the corners... It's a whole different story when visualizing the car's speed if you look at the graph compared to the raw numbers... Very impressive.