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    • German, Japanese, and American battle royale - 2014 Nissan GT-R Track Edition vs. Porsche 911 Turbo S vs. Camaro Z/28

      Is the Camaro Z28 overpriced at $75k? It has the venerable LS7 from the C6 Z06 at 505 horsepower clearly giving up power and torque to its German and Japanese rivals. It also has no turbos and no dual clutch transmission. Just a big 427 cubic inch naturally aspirated single overhead cam pushrod American V8 mated to the classic manual transmission. Is the Z28 in over its head against the $117,305 Nissan GT-R Track Edition and $182,050 911 Turbo S?


      Nope. And that $75k base price all of a sudden looks like a value in this company, doesn't it? What that money buys you is a Camaro that takes the roadcourse very seriously. 305/30/19 Pirelli Pzero Trofeo R tires are featured all around. Yes, 305's up front. There also are 15.5 inch carbon ceramic brakes rotors up front as well. The GT-R is the only one in this group without carbon ceramic brakes.

      The Camaro is clearly set up for roadcourse duty. It is also the slowest car of the group. A 12.3 @ 117.2 in the 1/4 mile certainly is not slow but it trails behind the GT-R with its 11.0 @ 125.1 run and the 911 Turbo S with its 10.9 @ 123.7. The 911 Turbo S again shows abnormally slow 1/4 mile numbers dying for some reason past 100 miles per hour despite being the first car to get there. Is the ECU cutting power? It sure looks like it.

      So the Camaro does not have a fancy dual clutch transmission, it does not have all wheel drive, and it isn't the most powerful. It isn't a lightweight either weighing 3857 pounds. 23 pounds lighter than the Nissan GT-R but 247 pounds heavier than the 911 Turbo S.

      That makes the Camaro beating the GT-R and the 911 Turbo S around the roadcourse all the more impressive because the car is doing it in the turns and not due to a power advantage. The cheaper rear wheel drive manual American car beats the more expensive dual clutch all wheel drive foreign robots that the automotive world seems to constantly rave about. There is some poetic justice in there somewhere.




      MotorTrend picks the Camaro as the best car in this test followed by the 911 Turbo S and then the GT-R. The GT-R is said to feel too controlled. In other words, it's boring. Who was it that told you it's a soulless robot? The 911 Turbo S also suffers from missing an 'X factor' in the driving experience. The GT3 would have been a better choice and addressed the driver involvement criticism. Now you likely understand why Porsche offers a GT3 and why horsepower is not everything.

      MotorTrend says the Camaro Z28 is GM at its best and it is tough to disagree. GM is definitely on a bit of a roll right now. A Camaro that is a better driver's car than a Porsche 911 Turbo and beats it around the roadcourse for $100k less is, well, unheard of until now. It is now the Porsche that is the dragster and the not the American 'muscle' car.

      Good for you GM. Way to beat the world's best without even needing to match the cost of entry. Thank you for building the Z28.

      3rd Place: Nissan GT-R Track Edition

      Old soldiers never die, they just fade away. Still a monster, but long in the tooth. The 2015 refresh arrives none too soon.

      2nd Place: Porsche 911 Turbo S


      One of the quickest production cars of all time, the Turbo S is caught in a weird space between grand touring and track attack.

      1st Place: Chevrolet Camaro Z/28


      Impressive. Most impressive. The General flexes its red, white, and blue muscles. Simply put, this is Chevy at its best.




      2014 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28 2014 Nissan GT-R Track Edition 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
      POWERTRAIN/CHASSIS
      DRIVETRAIN LAYOUT Front-engine, RWD Front-engine, AWD Rear-engine, AWD
      ENGINE TYPE 90-deg V-8, aluminum block/heads Twin-turbo 60-deg V-6, aluminum block/heads Twin-turbo flat-6, aluminum block/heads
      VALVETRAIN OHV, 2 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl DOHC, 4 valves/cyl
      DISPLACEMENT 427.9 cu in/7011 cc 231.8 cu in/3799 cc 231.9 cu in/3800 cc
      COMPRESSION RATIO 11.0:1 9.0:1 9.8:1
      POWER (SAE NET) 505 hp @ 6100 rpm* 545 hp @ 6400 rpm 560 hp @ 6500 rpm
      TORQUE (SAE NET) 481 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm* 463 lb-ft @ 3200 rpm 516 lb-ft @ 2100 rpm**
      REDLINE 7000 rpm 7000 rpm 7000 rpm
      WEIGHT TO POWER 7.6 lb/hp 7.1 lb/hp 6.4 lb/hp
      TRANSMISSION 6-speed manual 6-speed twin-cl auto 7-speed twin-cl auto
      AXLE/FINAL-DRIVE RATIO 3.91:1/2.46:1 3.70:1/2.95:1 3.44:1/2.14:1
      SUSPENSION, FRONT; REAR Struts, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, anti-roll bar Control arms, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar Struts, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, adj shocks, anti-roll bar
      STEERING RATIO 16.1:1 15.0:1 12.3:1-15.0:1
      TURNS LOCK-TO-LOCK 2.5 2.5 2.5
      BRAKES, F;R 15.5-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc; 15.3-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc, ABS 15.4-in vented, drilled disc; 15.0-in vented, drilled disc, ABS 16.1-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc; 15.4-in vented, drilled, carbon ceramic disc, ABS
      WHEELS, F;R 11.0 x 19-in; 11.5 x 19-in, forged aluminum 9.5 x 20 in; 10.5 x 20 in, forged aluminum 9.0 x 20-in; 11.5 x 20-in forged aluminum
      TIRES, F;R 305/30R19 102Y
      Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R
      255/40R20 97Y; 285/35R20 100Y
      Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT600 DSST CTT
      245/35R20 91Y; 305/30R20 103Y
      Pirelli P Zero
      DIMENSIONS
      WHEELBASE 112.3 in 109.4 in 96.5 in
      TRACK, F/R 66.1/64.7 in 62.6/63.0 in 60.6/62.6 in
      LENGTH x WIDTH x HEIGHT 192.3 x 76.9 x 52.4 in 183.8 x 74.6 x 53.9 in 177.4 x 74.0 x 51.0 in
      TURNING CIRCLE 37.7 ft (est) 36.6 ft 34.8 ft
      CURB WEIGHT 3857 lb 3880 lb 3610 lb
      WEIGHT DIST, F/R 53/47% 55/45% 39/61%
      SEATING CAPACITY 4 2 4
      HEADROOM, F/R 37.4/35.3 in 38.1/- in 37.8/26.0 in
      LEGROOM, F/R 42.4/29.9 in 44.6/- in 66.7/26.0 in (est)
      SHOULDER ROOM, F/R 56.9/42.5 in 54.3/- in 53.4/47.3 in
      CARGO VOLUME 11.3 cu ft 8.8 cu ft 9.2 cu ft
      TEST DATA
      ACCELERATION TO MPH
      0-30 1.7 sec 1.0 sec 1.0 sec
      0-40 2.3 1.5 1.4
      0-50 3.1 2.0 1.9
      0-60 4.0 2.7 2.6
      0-70 5.0 3.5 3.4
      0-80 6.2 4.5 4.4
      0-90 7.5 5.6 5.6
      0-100 9.0 6.9 6.8
      PASSING, 45-65 MPH 1.8 1.4 1.3
      QUARTER MILE 12.3 sec @ 117.2 mph 11.0 sec @ 125.1 mph 10.9 sec @ 123.7 mph
      BRAKING, 60-0 MPH 97 ft 94 ft 100 ft
      LATERAL ACCELERATION 1.06 g (avg) 1.02 g (avg) 1.04 g (avg)
      MT FIGURE EIGHT 23.6 sec @ 0.84 g (avg) 23.4 sec @ 0.89 g (avg) 23.0 sec @ 0.93 g (avg)
      2.3-MI ROAD COURSE LAP 96.17 sec 96.45 sec 96.34 sec
      TOP-GEAR REVS @ 60 MPH 1500 rpm 2150 rpm 1650 rpm
      CONSUMER INFO
      BASE PRICE $75,000 $117,305 $182,050
      PRICE AS TESTED $76,150 $117,590 $199,065
      STABILITY/TRACTION CONTROL Yes/yes Yes/yes Yes/yes
      AIRBAGS Dual front, front side, f/r rear curtain Dual front, front side, front curtain Dual front, front side, front curtain, front knee
      BASIC WARRANTY 3 yrs/36,000 mi 3 yrs/36,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
      POWERTRAIN WARRANTY 5 yrs/100,000 mi 5 yrs/60,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
      ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE 5 yrs/100,000 mi 5 yrs/60,000 mi 4 yrs/50,000 mi
      FUEL CAPACITY 19.0 gal 19.5 gal 16.9 gal
      EPA CITY/HWY/COMB ECON 13/19/15 mpg (est) 16/23/19 mpg 17/24/20 mpg
      ENERGY CONS, CITY/HWY 259/177 kW-hrs/100 mi (est) 211/147 kW-hrs/100 mi 198/140 kW-hrs/100 mi
      CO2 EMISSIONS, COMB 1.28 lb/mi (est) 1.05 lb/mi 0.99 lb/mi
      RECOMMENDED FUEL Unleaded premium Unleaded premium Unleaded premium
      *SAE certified
      **553 lb-ft w/temporary 20-sec overboost


      This article was originally published in forum thread: German, Japanese, and American battle royale - 2014 Nissan GT-R Track Edition vs. Porsche 911 Turbo S vs. Camaro Z/28 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 56 Comments
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        This is a really funny test. To me it just means that these guys can't drive. And they only use semi slicks on the Camaro which obviously skews the results in favour of it. Porsche also offers cup tires for the Turbo (Dunlop Sport Maxx Race).

        But hey, if some want to believe they're actually quicker on a road course in a Camaro, be my guest. They'll be disillusioned pretty soon when they try to replicate that result anywhere.
      1. onisyndicate's Avatar
        onisyndicate -
        I like the Z/28. It's a really good setup and would make a nice weekend track car and a Camaro that comes with a LS7 from the factory make any camaro fan happy.

        I noticed that the Z/28 was A LOT faster in the slower parts and Motor trends review on it put 60mph - 0 was 99 feet consecutively on their video review of the Z/28.

        Very good car indeed!
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        This is a really funny test. To me it just means that these guys can't drive. And they only use semi slicks on the Camaro which obviously skews the results in favour of it. Porsche also offers cup tires for the Turbo (Dunlop Sport Maxx Race).

        But hey, if some want to believe they're actually quicker on a road course in a Camaro, be my guest. They'll be disillusioned pretty soon when they try to replicate that result anywhere.
        The guys can't drive, yet they set a faster time in a manually shifter, RWD car without the electronic wizardry that the competing two cars have? I don't think I'm following your reasoning.... R-comps are standard on the Z28 and an option on the Porsche. Why wouldn't someone be able to replicate this result?
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        someone paid somebody something nice...
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        The guys can't drive, yet they set a faster time in a manually shifter, RWD car without the electronic wizardry that the competing two cars have? I don't think I'm following your reasoning.... R-comps are standard on the Z28 and an option on the Porsche. Why wouldn't someone be able to replicate this result?
        My point exactly, thanks for underligning the issue. The more powerful, lighter car with a double clutch transmission and all wheel drive was driven slower than the heavier, less powerful rear wheel drive car with a manual transmission. That defies the laws of physics.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        My point exactly, thanks for underligning the issue. The more powerful, lighter car with a double clutch transmission and all wheel drive was driven slower than the heavier, less powerful rear wheel drive car with a manual transmission. That defies the laws of physics.
        That is a pretty broad, generalized and, most importantly, incorrect statement. It applies in a straight line, most of the time, but start throwing in curves and it is a WHOLE different ball game.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        That is a pretty broad, generalized and, most importantly, incorrect statement. It applies in a straight line, most of the time, but start throwing in curves and it is a WHOLE different ball game.
        Of course. There the lighter car (Porsche) with the better traction (Porsche) and quicker gear changes (Porsche) should be much faster.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        yeah i mean i like the camaro and its probably amazing on the track for what it is but there's just no way..the ls7 has tons of low end torque but no match for a turbo porsche, as the camaro was "beating" the other 2 cars in turns, really a big wide heavy muscle car taking a corner faster than a porsche? the corvette in place of the camaro would have shown more fair results.
      1. fastgti69's Avatar
        fastgti69 -
        I don't think you guys understand what GM sports division can do. This car, a z06/zr1, even my old cobalt SS would run circles around probably all the cars on this forum if they compared them with the same "Class".
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Here, you guys can educate yourself on the suspension package in the Z28....

        http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/...-28-suspension

        This is pretty radical technology and has only been available in the $1mm+ Aston Martin One-77 and top-tier race cars until now. This suspension is superior to throwing any $10,000+ Ohlin/Moton/whoever package on the car and then having them professionally matched and balanced for the chassis. Couple that with some r-comps and a great motor and you have one hell of a track car.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        This is a really funny test. To me it just means that these guys can't drive. And they only use semi slicks on the Camaro which obviously skews the results in favour of it. Porsche also offers cup tires for the Turbo (Dunlop Sport Maxx Race).

        But hey, if some want to believe they're actually quicker on a road course in a Camaro, be my guest. They'll be disillusioned pretty soon when they try to replicate that result anywhere.
        Um Randy Pobst was driving.

        That is not your regular Camaro. I know it may be hard to believe but it's better on the roadcourse.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Here, you guys can educate yourself on the suspension package in the Z28....

        http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/...-28-suspension

        This is pretty radical technology and has only been available in the $1mm+ Aston Martin One-77 and top-tier race cars until now. This suspension is superior to throwing any $10,000+ Ohlin/Moton/whoever package on the car and then having them professionally matched and balanced for the chassis. Couple that with some r-comps and a great motor and you have one hell of a track car.
        Some people just won't get it due to ingrained assumptions about American cars.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        someone paid somebody something nice...
        The only thing someone paid for was that absurd sticker price on the 911 Turbo S.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rawad1017 Click here to enlarge
        yeah i mean i like the camaro and its probably amazing on the track for what it is but there's just no way..the ls7 has tons of low end torque but no match for a turbo porsche, as the camaro was "beating" the other 2 cars in turns, really a big wide heavy muscle car taking a corner faster than a porsche? the corvette in place of the camaro would have shown more fair results.
        Why no way? 305 R compounds all around. Superior suspension. No turbo lag.

        The Camaro once moving isn't giving up much of anything at speed the LS7 is a beast of a motor with a flatter curve AND it revs higher than either of these. When an M beats more powerful competition you guys don't act like this.

        The Camaro is lightened with a wider track. The Corvette will do even better than this. Do you guys not understand what the Z28 is?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I can't believe some of you discounting the Z28 the way you are and the LS7. This forum is smarter than this.
      1. E90Company's Avatar
        E90Company -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Some people just won't get it due to ingrained assumptions about American cars.
        People need to realize that the modern American car is WAY different than the American car from 10 years ago. They (we?) took over, sorry guys just accept it. The Z28 was a purpose built track car designed to take the king spot on the track in front of all the competition and it looks like it did exactly that.

        Do you guys realize that this is a prime example of why the trend of smaller displacement turbo motors is a bad idea for the road course? The turbo lag alone is enough to skew the results, not to mention the $#@!ty response and no top end (usually) that's needed to perform.

        Euro cars are about to become irrelevant on the road course, give it a few more years. Right now nothing even competes with the latest Viper/Vette.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        I can't wait to see what the Z06 does to these cars.

        I've had enough of the GTR personally.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I can't wait to see what the Z06 does to these cars.

        I've had enough of the GTR personally.
        your going to see alot of GT-R kill videos when those things drop specially if they take to the aftermarket like the stingray did.....
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        If/when this suspension is passed along to the lighter, more powerful and more aerodynamic Z06 (maybe that has already been announced? I'm not sure) then we are about to see the bar get raised in the same way the GTR did it about 6 years back. Fun times.

        Should I link the Autoweek article where the 991 GT3 was only .53 seconds faster than the Z28 on a 1:35 course or have these guys had enough for today? Click here to enlarge
      1. blankstar43's Avatar
        blankstar43 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        If/when this suspension is passed along to the lighter, more powerful and more aerodynamic Z06 (maybe that has already been announced? I'm not sure) then we are about to see the bar get raised in the same way the GTR did it about 6 years back. Fun times.

        Should I link the Autoweek article where the 991 GT3 was only .53 seconds faster than the Z28 on a 1:35 course or have these guys had enough for today? Click here to enlarge
        link it good sir