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    • Is Dinan a hypocrite? Piggyback 'Turbotronics' S63TU V8 tuning coming from Dinan for the F10/F12/F13 M5 and M6

      This certainly is interesting to see considering Dinan took blatant shots at piggyback style tuning boxes for the new generation of turbocharged BMW's earlier this year. Has Dinan had a change of heart? What likely is happening is that people are slowly but surely educating themselves on tuning options available for turbo BMW's and more often than not piggyback boxes offer greater horsepower for less money. This is especially true in comparison to Dinan tunes.

      As it stands, you can get greater performance with a piggyback for $500 than a Dinan flash for $3500.00. It seems people are wising up to not overpaying for a name brand simply for its name and it appears Dinan's attempt to shed doubt on the quality of piggyback tuning was not enough to get people to stop buying piggybacks.

      Dinan is in business to make money so it looks like some pride may need to be swallowed here if what Dinan is advertising below is true. The Dinan Turbotronics TCU is labeled a Tuning Control Unit which one can logically conclude is an external piggyback box that will rely on the factory ECU to remain in place.

      Is Dinan a hypocrite? You decide.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Is Dinan a hypocrite? Piggyback 'Turbotronics' S63TU V8 tuning coming from Dinan for the F10/F12/F13 M5 and M6 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 21 Comments
      1. Irishace's Avatar
        Irishace -
        Still lacking a flash solution, piggies will be en vogue for a while until someone cracks that dme. Reminds me of early n54 tuning progression.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
        Still lacking a flash solution, piggies will be en vogue for a while until someone cracks that dme. Reminds me of early n54 tuning progression.
        Absolutely and ultimately flashes will dominate the high end setups and be necessary but what this really is about is Dinan's slamming of piggybacks only to now seemingly offer one just months after doing so...
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        I'd hate to see the price tag for that *cough* "extensive" mod list
      1. dmitriyo's Avatar
        dmitriyo -
        I think Dinan is stuck in the past generations of BMWs. The know-how, engineering, theory and level of standard is very high at Dinan and they have some of the best performing race and street engines out there. When it comes to the new turbo platforms - Dinan is off the mark from pricing to delivering the final output.

        Some of the products are on point, like the FMIC for the N54s but others are odd - like the strut brace/intake tube for the 5 series. The pricing is way off in terms of what the market can sustain, especially when you consider the end result (buggy, low output and etc).

        No doubt Steve and his team have the theory and engineering power to get thing done, and, in my opinion, done way better than most companies out there - but being proud with an arrogant and conservative approach - will not yield any new friends or customers with the new cars.

        Its very hard gain power with NA motors and only those who understand the math, theory and engineering can optimize the performance - as Dinan did with the NA M vehicles. This know-how is expensive and creates high overhead - passed on to the cost of parts and engines. With the turbo setups - power gains are more accessible. To some extent - this may have diluted and ruined the true engineering companies out there with others creating parts that get the job done much cheaper relying of the flexibility and ease of turbocharged platforms and (this is another topic in itself). .

        Dinan either adapts and corrects for the current markets. They used to have a strong electrical engineering department - not sure what is happening now. BMW has significantly upped the security and modern ECUs are exponentially more complex, so that does create a speed bump, though one would expect Dinan to adjust and up the efforts in cracking and coding.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dmitriyo Click here to enlarge
        Dinan either adapts and corrects for the current markets. They used to have a strong electrical engineering department - not sure what is happening now. BMW has significantly upped the security and modern ECUs are exponentially more complex, so that does create a speed bump, though one would expect Dinan to adjust and up the efforts in cracking and coding.
        Dinan takes a brute force approach. Traditionally someone would walk out with the codes from BMW and sell them on the secondary market. Getting a very nice profit for themselves on the 'black' tuning market so to speak.

        With the 550 Dinan essentially had supercomputers running working at cracking these things. He hires Cal Tech grads, gives them a big salary (not that they do not deserve it), and tells them to solve the problem.

        Well, with a piggyback you don't need to do this. It's honestly starting to come down to economics which is why even Dinan will get into the piggy game. If he knew he would do so it makes me wonder why he ever put out a video slamming piggybacks in the first place. Or maybe the market is putting so much pressure on him now as if you want to be fast you aren't running Dinan anything.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        He'll probably just offer both a piggy and a flash(when he cracks the dme). That's what I would do, why not?

        As for being a hypocrite...I'm sure he'll have a spin as to why his isn't a traditional piggy but yes they are being a hypocrite.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I'm sure he'll have a spin as to why his isn't a traditional piggy
        Oh I can't wait.
      1. rawad1017's Avatar
        rawad1017 -
        lmao sticky probably already has THAT article prewritten
      1. dmitriyo's Avatar
        dmitriyo -
        The piggyback is indeed useful and faster in many cases. In some - it may be the only way, all depending on how much money one throws at reverse engineering.

        Ive heard several negative reviews regarding the 550 tuning experience via Dinan.. so perhaps even that immense effort to break code isn't paying off either. APR has a similar approach, they built special computers to help and have engineers to decipher things - but they do fine it seems.

        At the end of the day - re-flashing an OEM computer is ideal and to use the power it has is ideal. But that does require a lot of effort for an end result that may not need all that. Indeed - a well setup piggyback will do the job, even using high end components like AEM or Motec boxes.
      1. CookieCrisp's Avatar
        CookieCrisp -
        Maybe its a flash loader to load different maps and not necessarily a piggyback?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CookieCrisp Click here to enlarge
        Maybe its a flash loader to load different maps and not necessarily a piggyback?
        Could be. People there reported differently though.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Hahaha. Oh man. This is priceless. And I wonder what he will charge for this "TCU" (nice name by the way Click here to enlarge ) - probably something obscene. Power claims look a bit low compared to what else is out there too, so if it costs any more then honestly I cannot even take this company seriously anymore. Used to be on top...not anymore.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Hahaha. Oh man. This is priceless. And I wonder what he will charge for this "TCU" (nice name by the way Click here to enlarge ) - probably something obscene. Power claims look a bit low compared to what else is out there too, so if it costs any more then honestly I cannot even take this company seriously anymore. Used to be on top...not anymore.
        It's been a LOOOONNGGGGG time since they were on top. AA crushed them when E36's were around perforamnce wise and I can't remember a single time they were on top since then.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's been a LOOOONNGGGGG time since they were on top. AA crushed them when E36's were around perforamnce wise and I can't remember a single time they were on top since then.
        Good call. Sounds about right. They have really slipped...prime example of coasting on reputation.
      1. NikB316's Avatar
        NikB316 -
        What a joke. If I recall, there was an interview with Steve just a couple months back clearly stating they cracked the ECU? I guess this is their version of a "crack".

        I'll happily picking up my BMS tuned M5 in exactly one week. Can't beat that price...~100hp/tq for the price of my IND Front & Side Grilles lol!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Good call. Sounds about right. They have really slipped...prime example of coasting on reputation.
        I'm amazed how much people love name brands. It has to be how Hamann and AC Schnitzer survive because their tuning is W E A K.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm amazed how much people love name brands. It has to be how Hamann and AC Schnitzer survive because their tuning is W E A K.
        Oh yeah for sure. Those companies are practically an embarrassment. All they do is churn out horrendous body kits and maybe have an exhaust and a tune that are way less effective than anything else you can buy. I'm just glad that we are sort of living in a golden age of tuning - more and more companies are popping up with real know-how and the desire to make a name for themselves. Dinan is not one of those anymore.
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        That's some real Shiv $#@! right there. Way to go Steve.
      1. CookieCrisp's Avatar
        CookieCrisp -
        Turns out Dinan has offered 'turbotronic' piggybacks in the past on older cars like the e30...
        I checked some forum posts and people complained about them being a pain in the ass
        Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by CookieCrisp Click here to enlarge
        Turns out Dinan has offered 'turbotronic' piggybacks in the past on older cars like the e30...
        I checked some forum posts and people complained about them being a pain in the ass
        Click here to enlarge
        That would just increase the hypocrisy.