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    • Should BMW build a 2015 F22 M2 and if they do what would it look and perform like?

      With the introduction of the F22 M235i (this is not an official BMW M model) the BMW enthusiast community is now debating whether or not BMW should introduce an M2 based on the F22 platform. Proponents will argue that the E82 1M was a success but opponents will say there is not much room between the M235i and the upcoming BMW M3/M4. Additionally, if BMW were to simply take the M235i, change the bodywork, and borrow some M3/M4 suspension and brake pieces there would be the question of whether this is a real M car like the criticism of the E82 1M.

      How this car would look is the easy part. Just take a look at the picture renderings below. Sexy? Sure, the car definitely would look good. The hard questions to answer are what would be under the hood. Just the same N55 motor with some more aggressive software? An M model without an M motor again? Would this really amount to anything more than an M235i with a tune and bodykit?

      BMW could take that route and do the path of least resistance offering maximum profit. BimmerBoost will give them as much flack as humanly possible if they do. Let's say an M2 does come, wouldn't a motor designed to compete with the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG M133 four-cylinder make more sense?

      Then the problem of the N55 motor in the M235i outpowering a smaller four-cylinder in the aftermarket relatively easily arises. However, an M motor has never been about raw power. It is true that the N54 turbo six-cylinder in the 335i can make more power than the S65 V8 in the E92 M3 with an aftermarket tune. However, the more rewarding driving experience, response, and road course prowess is provided by the M3 V8.

      With the original E30 M3 BMW designed the famous S14 four-cylinder despite having a six-cylinder already available for duty in the E30. The S14 motor provided a driving experience and placement in the chassis giving a level of balance as well as a lighter weight that could not be matched by the six cylinder E30 models. The E30 M3 was the best E30 3-Series offering the most exciting driving experience despite not having the largest motor.

      BMW could repeat their history here and actually make a true spiritual successor to the E30 M3. Will they? Likely not, as chances are the M235i with some BMW Performance Parts will be where this all ends. It sure it interesting to think about what the M2 could potentially be though.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: What a M2 could look like started by DavidV View original post
      Comments 39 Comments
      1. Itsbrokeagain's Avatar
        Itsbrokeagain -
        BMW is still concerned with maxing profit margins. An enthusiast based car would be ideal, but they are not Porsche, who can make a limited run of whatever (GT2, GT3 RS, etc) and charge whatever they want for it, because people will buy exclusivity regardless of price. I hate to say it but BMW has watered themselves down to the masses and sell so many cars that anything limited run they come out with doesnt seem to hold a candle to what Porsche does...people would baulk at paying $120k for a GT3 competitor and I feel like they would sit on the lot.

        Porsche sells a fraction of what BMW does....always keeps demand up and the waiting list long for rare models. BMW also needs to start kicking ass in motorsports like Porsche has been doing for decades.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
        people would baulk at paying $120k for a GT3 competitor and I feel like they would sit on the lot.
        The GTS sold out at this price point.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
        Porsche sells a fraction of what BMW does....
        That's why it should be easier for BMW to do enthusiast models as they have so much volume elsewhere.
      1. whoosh's Avatar
        whoosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The GTS sold out at this price point.

        That's why it should be easier for BMW to do enthusiast models as they have so much volume elsewhere.
        Right... Look at the 1M that sold out even with dealers adding mark-ups to the car. And that car is nothing compared to what an M2 would be if built as I described. Plus, the GT3 is priced so high because it's based on a car that retails for $80k to start. Hopping up a car that starts in the $30k range puts you into the $50-60k range, totally reasonable for the performance that car would have.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
        Plus, the GT3 is priced so high because it's based on a car that retails for $80k to start.
        Exactly, not apples to apples. Regardless, there is a market for enthusiast BMW models obviously. An M2 that is focused as a driver's car would find a market especially considering it would cost half of a GT3.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        How happy would you be as an M3/4 owner, if you were able to get better performance - and have the same drivetrain/components/etc. for less money? It's not going to happen. It would be like offering the 1M instead with the S65B40 - and selling it for 50k - it wouldn't make much sense, and the M3 owners would be a little upset...

        Of course they didn't complain (re: Z3M/Z4M) - because it was still priced the same.

        My point was that if they have a lower model car for less money, and we already have the M235i (or whatever) - what possibly could this thing really be? IDK - I am not sure if it's coming across right - basically, I just don't see a market for this car if it's powered by a true M motor - it would HAVE to cost nearly the same as the M3 - at that point, what's the point?
        I am an M3 owner Click here to enlarge it wouldn't bother me one bit, but that's probably because I would have bought an M2 instead of such a thing was available. I came close to getting a 1M but I already had an N55 135i and still have an N54 335is so I really wanted the S65. An S65 in an E82/F22 size car would literally make me cry from excitement.

        You are right, though, that if it cost almost the same as an M4 there wouldn't be that much of a point in the car but personally I think it would be cool to just have the same car in different sizes. For ~$57k you can get an M2 which is lighter but doesn't have too much space in the back or in the trunk and for ~$63-65k you can get an M4 with more space for people and luggage and a longer, sleeker body (vs the upright badass stance of the M2) and it's just a few hundred pounds heavier. This makes perfect sense to me but it would be difficult to market it to the average person who, as you said, would see it as a poor man's M4.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        I am an M3 owner Click here to enlarge it wouldn't bother me one bit, but that's probably because I would have bought an M2 instead of such a thing was available. I came close to getting a 1M but I already had an N55 135i and still have an N54 335is so I really wanted the S65. An S65 in an E82/F22 size car would literally make me cry from excitement.

        You are right, though, that if it cost almost the same as an M4 there wouldn't be that much of a point in the car but personally I think it would be cool to just have the same car in different sizes. For ~$57k you can get an M2 which is lighter but doesn't have too much space in the back or in the trunk and for ~$63-65k you can get an M4 with more space for people and luggage and a longer, sleeker body (vs the upright badass stance of the M2) and it's just a few hundred pounds heavier. This makes perfect sense to me but it would be difficult to market it to the average person who, as you said, would see it as a poor man's M4.
        Yeah, I agree - I REALLY love that rendering - and am always for a lighter/smaller car. I am glad the next M will be - but they should have gave us the 1M with a true S motor to begin with - I would bought one (almost) regardless of the damn price. Click here to enlarge

        I am curious what we end up with.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        No chance of a high revving NA motor at al.
        Yep - and that sucks. I don't think we will see another good NA motor come out of BMW or M for a LONG time... It's all about "efficient dynamics" instead of the ultimate driving machine unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, I am not hating on BMW - I just wish they would at least give the choice like Porsche.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What if it sounds like this?

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMGPg8kFrFQ

        I think I might literally sell my soul for an M2 that sounded like that. Unfortunately, we might never hear a 4 cylinder like that ever again, especially in any BMW. The N20 doesn't exactly stir me with emotion.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Hot redheads stir me with emotion. What this has to do with this thread I have no clue.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        I thought a lot about what engine is going to be in the M2.

        I'm fairly confident it will be a S20 based on the N20 (360-380hp) just like how the S55 is based on the N55 and the car will weigh in at about 3100 lbs.

        It will be epic.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
        I thought a lot about what engine is going to be in the M2.

        I'm fairly confident it will be a S20 based on the N20 (360-380hp) just like how the S55 is based on the N55 and the car will weigh in at about 3100 lbs.

        It will be epic.
        I think you may be right, the cla45 AMG and rs3 will have a market, for BMW to ignore that would be a mistake. A s20 would make sense because the other cars are 4 cylinders. 360-380 hp may be dreaming though, that's way over a stock n20.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I think you may be right, the cla45 AMG and rs3 will have a market, for BMW to ignore that would be a mistake. A s20 would make sense because the other cars are 4 cylinders. 360-380 hp may be dreaming though, that's way over a stock n20.
        350hp then Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I think you may be right, the cla45 AMG and rs3 will have a market, for BMW to ignore that would be a mistake. A s20 would make sense because the other cars are 4 cylinders. 360-380 hp may be dreaming though, that's way over a stock n20.
        Mercedes can hit that output so why can't BMW?
      1. grusso's Avatar
        grusso -
        I think.....an M2 with a N55 would make less sense based on the proclaimed M235i.
        The M2 with an S55 with lower power by software remap might find a nich market precisely.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by grusso Click here to enlarge
        I think.....an M2 with a N55 would make less sense based on the proclaimed M235i.
        The M2 with an S55 with lower power by software remap might find a nich market precisely.
        The M235i as it sits doesn't leave too much room. We'll see if the RS3 and CLA45 AMG force BMW's hand.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        I think the m2 will be cosmetic/chassis mods only, no engine change except maybe a slight software boost over the m235.

        If they put a detuned s55 in it they would be idiotic. I'd buy one in a second and mod it lol
      1. grusso's Avatar
        grusso -
        This is the whole point I do not think BMW is looking as M2 to be in between the M3/M4 and M235i.
        In my view they will positioned as M2/M3/M4 as variant classic small couple, mid-range couple and four doors sedan.
        BMW noticed for sure the tuning value market they can explore by going to the niche we may see that M4 is much more track alike as previous one. The 1M was just a lab trial.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by grusso Click here to enlarge
        This is the whole point I do not think BMW is looking as M2 to be in between the M3/M4 and M235i.
        In my view they will positioned as M2/M3/M4 as variant classic small couple, mid-range couple and four doors sedan.
        BMW noticed for sure the tuning value market they can explore by going to the niche we may see that M4 is much more track alike as previous one. The 1M was just a lab trial.
        I agree that the 1M was a trial run and them seeing what they could get away with. An M2 may be similar.

        Nobody knows what they will do but thus far we have no official word from BMW or any M2 models testing. We are all just speculating on what we think they should do.
      1. grusso's Avatar
        grusso -
        Yes that's true. It seems M2 with a real M (S55) engine is much more attractive for its target audience than just a M235i with body twist and few performance up grades. We will see.