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    • F10 M5 version 2.0 - MotorTrend tests BMW's 2014 Competition Package F10 M5 AKA MotorTrend is run by morons

      The Competition Package for the F10 M5 is a $7300 option designed to improve the M5 driving experience. BimmerBoost personally feels that as an M5 the car should already be focused around offering the highest performance driving experience to begin with but at least BMW is responding to criticism of the F10 M5 and offering an option designed to improve it. $7300 buys you 15 more horsepower (575 total), a revised suspension with stiffer springs and rolls bars, and revised stability control, steering, and M differential.


      Those are some significant changes and the package is BMW essentially admitting those areas can be improved. Notice the E60 M5 and E39 M5 did not need this type of package.

      So how good is the package? MotorTrend claims acceleration is not improved by citing similar numbers to their European spec test F10 M5 from last year. No offense to MotorTrend but... actually, scratch that. Large offense to MotorTrend who seems to have amateurs working for them. Just because the elapsed time in the 1/4 mile is still 11.9 to 11.9 does not mean the car is offering the same performance. The trap speed with the Competition Package rises to an impressive 122.2 miles per hour from the 120.3 miles per hour in their previous test. That is just under two miles per hour from a claimed 15 horsepower increase. BimmerBoost is sick of being nice regarding this level of incompetence in interpreting performance numbers from supposedly professional journalists. MotorTrend, you have morons digesting and presenting your information.

      Furthermore, citing the 0-60 number as being the same is not evidence of performance between the two models being the same. This being a rear wheel drive car with over 560 horsepower in either trim means it is a traction limited stat. Even if the car gets a larger horsepower bump why would it correlate that the 0-60 should improve when there is already enough power to overwhelm the grip of the street tires? What is wrong with you? What is so hard to understand here? Why does this reviewer have a job?

      The Competition Package makes the M5 faster by approximately two miles per hour in the 1/4 mile. That is significant and although one can exceed this in the aftermarket for those who care about their warranty the package is making a performance difference.

      This M5 has Carbon Ceramic brakes and fade is eliminated with them which is impressive. A must have option really for a car of this weight that anyone intends to drive in a spirited manner. How about that the lap time improves as well to exceed the standard M6? Now the M6 also gets this same package meaning it will improve as well but these vehicles are finally what they should have been to begin with. That is the conclusion MotorTrend comes to and BimmerBoost agrees with.

      Enjoy the full video below as long as you can ignore MotorTrend's glaring mistakes.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: F10 M5 version 2.0 - MotorTrend tests BMW's 2014 Competition Package F10 M5 AKA MotorTrend is run by morons started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 79 Comments
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Regardless it took a P31 package to put the C63 decisively ahead.



        I haven't seen an 1100 whp C63. I haven't seen any dyno showing 1000+ whp from the M156 all we have is numbers typed on forums from people known to brag. Let me just put it this way, the power argument is not in favor of the M156 when we're talking forced induction. Both motors are VERY capable here.



        It says Dodger knows when negative DA hits and when to be at the track.



        As am I and I believe the M5 has a distinct advantage due to its transmission.



        This does not change my car dispatching with 63 AMG's which according to MBworld people was impossible.

        Well they haven't run me and I haven't run them. For that particular event it is I who holds the belt.

        I appreciate that we'll see soon enough but I am quite familiar with all these cars and their capabilities.
        True good point. I believe them but i dont get whats so hard about posting a freakin sheet and putting doubt to rest dont get why they won't. It would actually be better in the c63 than in the clk63 bs the C63 is a bit lighter and the MCT is much better than the pos 7G Torque converter they are using but no one has done it yet. Hopefully it will be me soon enough.
        Actually remember that c63 that hit like 1000whp with the stage 3 blower and a big shot of nitrous? wtf happened to him he went silent quick. Guess that 7G gave out or he blew the motor

        This is true about dodger but the ess e92 that has the record also ran in the same place same conditions. Just shows how badass the M156 can be even N/A one of the great motors. Just like the S65 as you said were lucky to have experienced these masterpieces of german engineering.

        Like ive stated before the DCT is def an advantage. But IMO not enough to overcome 1.1 liters extra displacement and grip of AWD. You see the test the traps are almost identical. The MCT is also much stronger for modifying and the M157 looks to have a good lead in the aftermarket

        No doubt about it you know from my other thread how i feel about Mbworld .. OMGzz Carbon Fiber Start button - 20 Page thread ... Technical disscusion about pioneering black series coolers onto a non BS coupe - 4 replies and 3 were about the price lol

        Thats what im saying until you run and beat them this will be discussed hopefully soon !

        No prob man im glad that even though we dont agree on everything we both have good general knowledge and have debates while keeping it respectful and full of information for others to learn. Keep doing your thing man !!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        This is true about dodger but the ess e92 that has the record also ran in the same place same conditions. Just shows how badass the M156 can be even N/A one of the great motors. Just like the S65 as you said were lucky to have experienced these masterpieces of german engineering.
        Yes of course it's a great NA motor.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Like ive stated before the DCT is def an advantage. But IMO not enough to overcome 1.1 liters extra displacement and grip of AWD. You see the test the traps are almost identical. The MCT is also much stronger for modifying and the M157 looks to have a good lead in the aftermarket
        That's where the weight, redline, and gearing come in. Dual clutch transmission have shown in the GTR and Veyron they can take plenty of torque. It's just a matter of beefing it up which is what I'm doing.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        No prob man im glad that even though we dont agree on everything we both have good general knowledge and have debates while keeping it respectful and full of information for others to learn. Keep doing your thing man !!
        I will. The point of the forum is for open discussion and to learn. This would be locked anywhere else.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        @ezec63 Don't mean to offend you buddy I'm just stating my opinion. I'm not a fanboy. Just telling you what I know.

        To be fair, I've read reviews that do not criticize the M5 as heavy and numb. I think really the only real complaint that can legitimately be levied against the M5 is the fact that the steering is numb. It sure as hell isn't less capable on the track than any E/CLS63.

        The reason you should "watch out" (and I don't mean you personally but anyone with a Weistec/AMS car) is that given the same power, I really think the M5 would be faster than an E63 on a roll. Less weight (140+ pounds is not splitting hairs), DCT, and higher revs. That's all I'm trying to say.

        And no I'm not trying to use forum opinions to say which car is better. I am however referring to what some very reasonable, well-qualified, and long-standing members of both sides have said about both cars. From what I've seen, the biggest criticizers of the M5 are people that have never driven one, followed by people that have never owned one. Always be careful when listening to opinions of these people. As I said, and I think you misread me: Guys on MBW have said they prefer the M handling. So, take that for what you will.

        Again, both are great cars. I just happen to like the BMW a bit better. I have not driven one yet but I'm hoping to arrange that in the near future. Glad you're willing to debate though. I do like talking about this stuff, that's why I'm here.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        "watch out" (and I don't mean you personally but anyone with a Weistec/AMS car) is that given the same power, I really think the M5 would be faster than an E63 on a roll.
        Same here and same with the E92 M3 versus a C63 AMG especially from a roll.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        @ezec63 Don't mean to offend you buddy I'm just stating my opinion. I'm not a fanboy. Just telling you what I know.

        To be fair, I've read reviews that do not criticize the M5 as heavy and numb. I think really the only real complaint that can legitimately be levied against the M5 is the fact that the steering is numb. It sure as hell isn't less capable on the track than any E/CLS63.

        The reason you should "watch out" (and I don't mean you personally but anyone with a Weistec/AMS car) is that given the same power, I really think the M5 would be faster than an E63 on a roll. Less weight (140+ pounds is not splitting hairs), DCT, and higher revs. That's all I'm trying to say.

        And no I'm not trying to use forum opinions to say which car is better. I am however referring to what some very reasonable, well-qualified, and long-standing members of both sides have said about both cars. From what I've seen, the biggest criticizers of the M5 are people that have never driven one, followed by people that have never owned one. Always be careful when listening to opinions of these people. As I said, and I think you misread me: Guys on MBW have said they prefer the M handling. So, take that for what you will.

        Again, both are great cars. I just happen to like the BMW a bit better. I have not driven one yet but I'm hoping to arrange that in the near future. Glad you're willing to debate though. I do like talking about this stuff, that's why I'm here.

        same here man ! Just trying to have a convo and insert my opinion which can be right or wrong I'm not Jesus lmao .. As far as the weight to be completely fair it's 100 pounds not 140 the M5 has carbon ceramic brakes that the E63 didn't have and it's good for 42 pounds of weight saving. The CC brakes are an option on the E from the factory this test car
        didnt have them so to be fair it's 100 pounds and 40 pounds of rotational mass is huge that would have made the E63 S even faster and handle better with less weight off the wheels.

        I agree if it did have the same power but what I'm saying is for now the m157 is making much more power and the dct/rwd/100 pounds isn't nearly enough to overcome it. AMS upgrade if it produces 800 crank won't be enough when AMS already has 800 WHEEL package out for the m157 and that was with stock cats/ filters. It will be much more with downpipes, full exhaust, filters, carbon air box, turbo inlet, turbo outlet pipes, inter cooler, and race fuel.
        @Sticky yes maybe but the m3 hasn't shown the ability yet to make more power than the 6.2L m156. Guess we forgot about jrcart raping the ess cars and pulling the built engine/ low compression s65 that Drew had with his stock motor/stock trans c63 bs on a basic stage 3 kit. They are now pushing 790 whp on stock motor/stock trans. S65/Dct isn't close to that power level. There's only one person who can prove that wrong and that's you but that is still to be determined
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        I agree if it did have the same power but what I'm saying is for now the m157 is making much more power and the dct/rwd/100 pounds isn't nearly enough to overcome it.
        It is enough to overcome it as the trap speed shows.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        @Sticky yes maybe but the m3 hasn't shown the ability yet to make more power than the 6.2L m156.
        I believe my build has shown it has...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Guess we forgot about jrcart raping the ess cars and pulling the built engine/ low compression s65 that Drew had with his stock motor/stock trans c63 bs on a basic stage 3 kit.
        Those are weak examples though which is why we don't respect them here. If my car was on the level of the ESS cars I'd sell it and move on.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        They are now pushing 790 whp on stock motor/stock trans. S65/Dct isn't close to that power level.
        What are you talking about? Not only am I close I'm past that...

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        There's only one person who can prove that wrong and that's you but that is still to be determined
        I don't think so.

        I mean look the S54 motor in the E46 m3 is ahead of the M156 at this point so doesn't that say enough right there?
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        @Sticky no it's not because if they were equipped the same way aka both had CC brakes which are factory options the E63 S would've had an even higher trap speed.

        Your highest dyno still hasn't eclipsed the 870 whp dyno the weistec guys posted a long time ago. Plus for whatever it's worth they are on stock block aka no sleeved cylinders. I understand your car should make a lot more if the clutches didn't slip but if we count that we'd have to count the 1100 whp Jrcart is saying he has now in the m156.

        Yea ess sucks put drews car was at similar power levels to Jrcarts c63 bs at the time. Just showing it can still hang / pull at similar power levels

        i meant close to 790 whp on stock s65 internals/ trans

        the s54 has been out a lot longer so it has that advantage. What's the whp record for them for a street car ? Not some tubbed out 7 second car
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        @Sticky no it's not because if they were equipped the same way aka both had CC brakes which are factory options the E63 S would've had an even higher trap speed.
        It should do better but the cars ran what they ran. Even with carbon ceramic brakes I'll stick take the M5 in a top end race as it is rear wheel drive with a dual clutch and higher redline.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Your highest dyno still hasn't eclipsed the 870 whp dyno the weistec guys posted a long time ago. Plus for whatever it's worth they are on stock block aka no sleeved cylinders. I understand your car should make a lot more if the clutches didn't slip but if we count that we'd have to count the 1100 whp Jrcart is saying he has now in the m156.
        I don't think they are stock block with what they are doing but maybe they are. I vaguely remember talking sleeves with them. I haven't seen any 1100 whp dyno but even if they do make 1100 whp that's fine. I have a dyno sheet showing the capability I'm talking about though so any intelligent person should be able to put it together.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        i meant close to 790 whp on stock s65 internals/ trans
        You can't expect a higher compression motor with less displacement on a different transmission style to make the same stock internal numbers. Plus, we're mentioning car that are no longer on the stock components anyway so it's irrelevant. To take advantage of the platform things have to be changed like the compression ratio at least for the M3.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        the s54 has been out a lot longer so it has that advantage. What's the whp record for them for a street car ? Not some tubbed out 7 second car
        1100 or something around there?
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        same here man ! Just trying to have a convo and insert my opinion which can be right or wrong I'm not Jesus lmao .. As far as the weight to be completely fair it's 100 pounds not 140 the M5 has carbon ceramic brakes that the E63 didn't have and it's good for 42 pounds of weight saving. The CC brakes are an option on the E from the factory this test car
        didnt have them so to be fair it's 100 pounds and 40 pounds of rotational mass is huge that would have made the E63 S even faster and handle better with less weight off the wheels.

        I agree if it did have the same power but what I'm saying is for now the m157 is making much more power and the dct/rwd/100 pounds isn't nearly enough to overcome it. AMS upgrade if it produces 800 crank won't be enough when AMS already has 800 WHEEL package out for the m157 and that was with stock cats/ filters. It will be much more with downpipes, full exhaust, filters, carbon air box, turbo inlet, turbo outlet pipes, inter cooler, and race fuel.
        @Sticky yes maybe but the m3 hasn't shown the ability yet to make more power than the 6.2L m156. Guess we forgot about jrcart raping the ess cars and pulling the built engine/ low compression s65 that Drew had with his stock motor/stock trans c63 bs on a basic stage 3 kit. They are now pushing 790 whp on stock motor/stock trans. S65/Dct isn't close to that power level. There's only one person who can prove that wrong and that's you but that is still to be determined
        Just a quick note, I think AMS is hoping to push 1000 hp too with built engines, and that might be at the wheels, not sure. Their 800 hp target for the turbo upgrade might be whp too, but I'm not sure. I actually would love for them to chime in on this.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Same here and same with the E92 M3 versus a C63 AMG especially from a roll.
        Most definitely. Unless you have a V12, ///M cars are the ones to have for the highway races now.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Just a quick note, I think AMS is hoping to push 1000 hp too with built engines, and that might be at the wheels, not sure. Their 800 hp target for the turbo upgrade might be whp too, but I'm not sure. I actually would love for them to chime in on this.
        Nice ! Hope they hit their target competition is good for everyone I'm sure they have something epic brewing for the built M157 as well
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        Most definitely. Unless you have a V12, ///M cars are the ones to have for the highway races now.
        You know im going to have to agree to disagree with this Click here to enlarge
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Dual clutch transmission have shown in the GTR and Veyron they can take plenty of torque. It's just a matter of beefing it up which is what I'm doing.
        ..beefing up "and programming" the TCU
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
        ..beefing up "and programming" the TCU
        A lot of the 'programming' you hear about is just upping the line pressure.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Did Gintani get that done for you?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
        Did Gintani get that done for you?
        Gintani actually can do real programming with it. You'll see soon enough.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        You know im going to have to agree to disagree with this Click here to enlarge
        Haha I figured you might Click here to enlarge
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Nice ! Hope they hit their target competition is good for everyone I'm sure they have something epic brewing for the built M157 as well
        I'm really looking forward to the battle of 1000 hp mid size tt V8 luxury sedans. We are truly living in the golden age of horsepower.
      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You should work for MotorTrend.
        hhahaah. Nice one bro. Dude just doesnt understand that trap speed is measure of how much HP the ride is makin