• F10 M5 version 2.0 - MotorTrend tests BMW's 2014 Competition Package F10 M5 AKA MotorTrend is run by morons

      The Competition Package for the F10 M5 is a $7300 option designed to improve the M5 driving experience. BimmerBoost personally feels that as an M5 the car should already be focused around offering the highest performance driving experience to begin with but at least BMW is responding to criticism of the F10 M5 and offering an option designed to improve it. $7300 buys you 15 more horsepower (575 total), a revised suspension with stiffer springs and rolls bars, and revised stability control, steering, and M differential.


      Those are some significant changes and the package is BMW essentially admitting those areas can be improved. Notice the E60 M5 and E39 M5 did not need this type of package.

      So how good is the package? MotorTrend claims acceleration is not improved by citing similar numbers to their European spec test F10 M5 from last year. No offense to MotorTrend but... actually, scratch that. Large offense to MotorTrend who seems to have amateurs working for them. Just because the elapsed time in the 1/4 mile is still 11.9 to 11.9 does not mean the car is offering the same performance. The trap speed with the Competition Package rises to an impressive 122.2 miles per hour from the 120.3 miles per hour in their previous test. That is just under two miles per hour from a claimed 15 horsepower increase. BimmerBoost is sick of being nice regarding this level of incompetence in interpreting performance numbers from supposedly professional journalists. MotorTrend, you have morons digesting and presenting your information.

      Furthermore, citing the 0-60 number as being the same is not evidence of performance between the two models being the same. This being a rear wheel drive car with over 560 horsepower in either trim means it is a traction limited stat. Even if the car gets a larger horsepower bump why would it correlate that the 0-60 should improve when there is already enough power to overwhelm the grip of the street tires? What is wrong with you? What is so hard to understand here? Why does this reviewer have a job?

      The Competition Package makes the M5 faster by approximately two miles per hour in the 1/4 mile. That is significant and although one can exceed this in the aftermarket for those who care about their warranty the package is making a performance difference.

      This M5 has Carbon Ceramic brakes and fade is eliminated with them which is impressive. A must have option really for a car of this weight that anyone intends to drive in a spirited manner. How about that the lap time improves as well to exceed the standard M6? Now the M6 also gets this same package meaning it will improve as well but these vehicles are finally what they should have been to begin with. That is the conclusion MotorTrend comes to and BimmerBoost agrees with.

      Enjoy the full video below as long as you can ignore MotorTrend's glaring mistakes.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: F10 M5 version 2.0 - MotorTrend tests BMW's 2014 Competition Package F10 M5 AKA MotorTrend is run by morons started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 79 Comments
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Also went to go watch the video again it doesnt make sense. The fastest ive seen a stock m5 run was 11.9 at a drag strip. Most likely looking at low 12's on the street. The E63 S WAGON which is 400 pounds heavier than the sedan ran an 11.7 in the motor trend test. The sedan will be even quicker when you take the weight off. What that shows me is that from a dig the m5 wont be able to pass the E63 S until after the quarter mile and after 120 miles per hour. I expect a stock M5 to walk a stock E63 S on the highway.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onisyndicate Click here to enlarge
        E63 is the only wagon option! Click here to enlarge I know i'm pointing out a niche body style. I still think AWD is where is at.

        Question is how well with the F10 tunes will be and price point!
        Good point on the wagon. Wish Audi saw fit to give us the RS6.

        The F10 tunes aren't too expensive and gains aren't terrible. Take a look around the S63TU engine section.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Better than the e63 S 4 matic? Doubt it man especially for straight line which these cars are really being used for the m157 currently dominates the s63tu. Talking about which 4400 lb car handles better is pretty pointless theyre both pigs
        The M5 has been ahead in the straightline battle actually thanks to the DCT and also because the M5 put out more power than the M157 stock for stock. Now the M157 got a boost but so did the S63TU. I think the M will win the roll ons and the E63 will win the 1/4 mile sprint thanks to all wheel drive.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The M5 has been ahead in the straightline battle actually thanks to the DCT and also because the M5 put out more power than the M157 stock for stock. Now the M157 got a boost but so did the S63TU. I think the M will win the roll ons and the E63 will win the 1/4 mile sprint thanks to all wheel drive.
        Yes i agree if were talking about stock cars. The MCT in the E63 isnt as bad as people make it seem i have a c63 coupe with it and its a great trans it shifts in under 100 milliseconds and the bmw dct claims the DCT shifts in 80 milliseconds your talking about a .02 difference nothing that a human will feel. Ive driven both and they both are just ridiculously fast when upshifting WOT

        The MCT def has the advantage as far as strength weistec is testing JRCarts C63 BS at 790WHP on the stock trans with a positive displacement blower on a 6.2 Liter motor we know thats a heavy combo for the trans to handle. So far its been holding up and it if so they will offer more power for mct users. Thats on a completely STOCK MCT
        Alpha says you can run the alpha 9 package 780 whp and much more torque from the m157 on a stock trans.
        The MCT is an incredibly strong transmission almost unheard of
        You know yourself the BMW DCT isnt the strongest out there.

        Having driven both i will say the advantage the DCT has is in responsiveness especially on downshifts and being able to skip multiple gears. The mct gets caught up and its hard to go down multiple gears thats its main down fall. Also the software must be off because theres a delay from when you pull the paddle on a mct to when it actually shifts its frustrating. But when it shifts it shifts fast
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The M5 has been ahead in the straightline battle actually thanks to the DCT and also because the M5 put out more power than the M157 stock for stock. Now the M157 got a boost but so did the S63TU. I think the M will win the roll ons and the E63 will win the 1/4 mile sprint thanks to all wheel drive.
        What i was talking about was modified cars. The M157 currently dominates the s63tu and theres really no argument its like a 150 wtq advantage and a good amount of wheel horsepower dependant on cars/dynos. Also track times you have m157 on stock turbos touching mid/high 10's and the s63tu hasnt gotten close. I really like the s63tu and its higher redline with ability to keep power going in the higher revs compared to the stump puller M157. It just seems the aftermarket is really slow with them or there isnt much wiggle room on stock turbos.

        We really need to keep our eye on the Audis cant believe they got into the 10's with the s8 the rs6 should be a monster and could come out on top
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        The s63 hasn't even gotten going.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The s63 hasn't even gotten going.
        And when it does the M157 will be on to the next stage it will just be playing catch up they barely have a legit edu tune while the m157 is getting upgraded stock housing turbos. I wish theyd hurry up and make me have no choice but to pull the trigger on a alpine white/ opal white interior m6 coupe i keep building on bmwusa !

        Have you heard tuners are having issues with the m157 and 4matic system? seems benz built in something in the software in the PTU to restrict big power numbers. They are getting the huge torque number of the m157 until 4k rpm where the protection kicks in and severely cuts torque. Hope they find a solution to it if not thats no fun
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Yes i agree if were talking about stock cars. The MCT in the E63 isnt as bad as people make it seem i have a c63 coupe with it and its a great trans it shifts in under 100 milliseconds and the bmw dct claims the DCT shifts in 80 milliseconds your talking about a .02 difference nothing that a human will feel. Ive driven both and they both are just ridiculously fast when upshifting WOT

        The MCT def has the advantage as far as strength weistec is testing JRCarts C63 BS at 790WHP on the stock trans with a positive displacement blower on a 6.2 Liter motor we know thats a heavy combo for the trans to handle. So far its been holding up and it if so they will offer more power for mct users. Thats on a completely STOCK MCT
        Alpha says you can run the alpha 9 package 780 whp and much more torque from the m157 on a stock trans.
        The MCT is an incredibly strong transmission almost unheard of
        You know yourself the BMW DCT isnt the strongest out there.

        Having driven both i will say the advantage the DCT has is in responsiveness especially on downshifts and being able to skip multiple gears. The mct gets caught up and its hard to go down multiple gears thats its main down fall. Also the software must be off because theres a delay from when you pull the paddle on a mct to when it actually shifts its frustrating. But when it shifts it shifts fast
        There really isn't a "shift time" for a true dual clutch trasmission... People try to measure what's faster SMG or DCT, and it's senseless. They are measuring the jerk from one shift to the next, which is not the shift, it's the re-application of torque from the engine.

        One clutch is always engaged - here's a comment from Dr. Faust from Getrag:

        In PowerShift this torque break time is not existent, so we can say it is zero. And this is the main reason for the very good shift quality.

        What is talked about shift time in PowerShift/DCT usually means just the phase the engine speed needs to ramp from old to new speed according to the gear ratios, with tractive force available.



        More in detail the main phases for (up-) shift in PowerShift are:

        1 Torque handover, from offgoing clutch to oncoming clutch, with tractive force

        2 Speed phase, just pulling engine speed down to the lower engine speed in higher gear, with tractive force (shift time)

        "tq break time 0 ms"



        For AMT the main phases are:
        1 Tq ramp-down of clutch tq ramp
        2 Disengagement of old gear tq break
        3 Dynchronizing and engagement of new gear tq break
        4 Tq ramp-up of clutch tq ramp
        "tq break time xxx ms"
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        In other words, during the actual shift there are 0 milleseconds of 100% tractive force loss. However, there is a torque loss - albeit minor. Point is, while an MCT (automatic/SMG/whatever) is shifting - it has NO tractive force, while the DSG car is still pulling. That's why it pwns. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        And when it does the M157 will be on to the next stage it will just be playing catch up they barely have a legit edu tune while the m157 is getting upgraded stock housing turbos. I wish theyd hurry up and make me have no choice but to pull the trigger on a alpine white/ opal white interior m6 coupe i keep building on bmwusa !

        Have you heard tuners are having issues with the m157 and 4matic system? seems benz built in something in the software in the PTU to restrict big power numbers. They are getting the huge torque number of the m157 until 4k rpm where the protection kicks in and severely cuts torque. Hope they find a solution to it if not thats no fun
        It's tuning holding it back right now the M157 has been out longer. We need to see what upgraded turbos do on it...
      1. nbrigdan's Avatar
        nbrigdan -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mycoupe Click here to enlarge
        Who cares if you trap a faster speed if you aren't trapping a quicker time as well?!?
        Haha, it shows how a roll on pull would end. ET and 0-60 show ability to launch, trap speed shows power to weight ratio.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        In other words, during the actual shift there are 0 milleseconds of 100% tractive force loss. However, there is a torque loss - albeit minor. Point is, while an MCT (automatic/SMG/whatever) is shifting - it has NO tractive force, while the DSG car is still pulling. That's why it pwns. Click here to enlarge
        Right i understand that it will be faster but how much faster? Its not nearly faster enough to make up for 150 wtq and almost 100whp especially when that car has the MCT which is very fast in its own way.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        In other words, during the actual shift there are 0 milleseconds of 100% tractive force loss. However, there is a torque loss - albeit minor. Point is, while an MCT (automatic/SMG/whatever) is shifting - it has NO tractive force, while the DSG car is still pulling. That's why it pwns. Click here to enlarge
        And their is also the strength aspect i mentioned. Nobody has yet upgraded the bmw DCT to handle any big power. The MCT can handle almost 800 whp on a completely stock trans and they have upgrades available to easily handle over 1000 wtq/whp ill take the 100 millisecond shift with a very brief pause.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        And their is also the strength aspect i mentioned. Nobody has yet upgraded the bmw DCT to handle any big power. The MCT can handle almost 800 whp on a completely stock trans and they have upgrades available to easily handle over 1000 wtq/whp ill take the 100 millisecond shift with a very brief pause.
        The M5s/M6's are handling what's thrown at them just fine so far. We'll see what happens with bigger power but I mean GTR's can do it so others can as well.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The M5s/M6's are handling what's thrown at them just fine so far. We'll see what happens with bigger power but I mean GTR's can do it so others can as well.
        Just because GTR's can do it doesnt translate into any DCT car can as well. Well any trans can be built but will it is the question the aftermarket with the gtr is alot bigger. Porsche has the PDK and doesnt have a proven upgrade yet either the demand is just not there. Ill take the MCT "slower" shift times with 800 whp capability completely stock for now. Hope someone can prove me wrong and finally get it going
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Just because GTR's can do it doesnt translate into any DCT car can as well. Well any trans can be built but will it is the question the aftermarket with the gtr is alot bigger. Porsche has the PDK and doesnt have a proven upgrade yet either the demand is just not there. Ill take the MCT "slower" shift times with 800 whp capability completely stock for now. Hope someone can prove me wrong and finally get it going
        It translates into dual clutches being able to be upgraded. Nobody is pushing the BMW DCT... well, except for what, me? You'll see shortly what it can handle once properly upgraded.

        It's all about demand as you stated.

        I'll take the higher performance option every time.
      1. leveraged sellout's Avatar
        leveraged sellout -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ezec63 Click here to enlarge
        Also went to go watch the video again it doesnt make sense. The fastest ive seen a stock m5 run was 11.9 at a drag strip. Most likely looking at low 12's on the street. The E63 S WAGON which is 400 pounds heavier than the sedan ran an 11.7 in the motor trend test. The sedan will be even quicker when you take the weight off. What that shows me is that from a dig the m5 wont be able to pass the E63 S until after the quarter mile and after 120 miles per hour. I expect a stock M5 to walk a stock E63 S on the highway.
        You need to do some catching up on the M5. The fastest stock run I've seen is 11.68 at 124. That was in crappy conditions. Completely stock car. If you can't break 12 seconds in an M5 you shouldn't be allowed to drive anything with an M badge on it.

        Backroads? No contest the M5. Weighs less, better balanced, less unsprung weight, handling is absolutely a genuine argument. Us BMW guys actually care about handling. You AMG guys just discovered what that was Click here to enlarge

        M5s are at 550/5xx stock, not modded. Tunes have not been demonstrated to actually do anything. The cars are making more like 640 hp, 560 lb ft at the crank. DCT is definitely shifting quicker than MCT in the E63, and like it or not, that makes a difference in acceleration and in the way you can bend the car to your will during spirited driving. I've driven a C63, does shift fast, but there is a slight delay, from what I've seen the M DCT box is literally telepathic. Haven't had the chance to drive one yet but I don't expect it to disappoint.

        The M157 has turbo upgrades available, and tunes. So far the S63tu has...some exhaust stuff and an intake. Tunes haven't really been shown to exist. Once AMS finishes their turbo upgrade, I'm expecting 800 hp at the crank, and about 650 lb. ft. That's plenty. I would put money on the M5 on the highway any day. Sure the E63 will launch harder, no question. But I'm not launching my car from a dead stop when I drive it. I'm usually rolling onto the throttle while already moving. Once the cars are moving, the M5 will walk the E63.

        None of this is to say the E63 is a bad car, not at all. It's a great car...but I think, in ways that are important to me at least, the M5 is better.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        You need to do some catching up on the M5. The fastest stock run I've seen is 11.68 at 124. That was in crappy conditions. Completely stock car. If you can't break 12 seconds in an M5 you shouldn't be allowed to drive anything with an M badge on it.

        Backroads? No contest the M5. Weighs less, better balanced, less unsprung weight, handling is absolutely a genuine argument. Us BMW guys actually care about handling. You AMG guys just discovered what that was Click here to enlarge

        M5s are at 550/5xx stock, not modded. Tunes have not been demonstrated to actually do anything. The cars are making more like 640 hp, 560 lb ft at the crank. DCT is definitely shifting quicker than MCT in the E63, and like it or not, that makes a difference in acceleration and in the way you can bend the car to your will during spirited driving. I've driven a C63, does shift fast, but there is a slight delay, from what I've seen the M DCT box is literally telepathic. Haven't had the chance to drive one yet but I don't expect it to disappoint.

        The M157 has turbo upgrades available, and tunes. So far the S63tu has...some exhaust stuff and an intake. Tunes haven't really been shown to exist. Once AMS finishes their turbo upgrade, I'm expecting 800 hp at the crank, and about 650 lb. ft. That's plenty. I would put money on the M5 on the highway any day. Sure the E63 will launch harder, no question. But I'm not launching my car from a dead stop when I drive it. I'm usually rolling onto the throttle while already moving. Once the cars are moving, the M5 will walk the E63.

        None of this is to say the E63 is a bad car, not at all. It's a great car...but I think, in ways that are important to me at least, the M5 is better.

        This is a very good post but I disagree that tunes have been not been demonstrated to do anything.

        The weight is also basically a wash.
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
        You need to do some catching up on the M5. The fastest stock run I've seen is 11.68 at 124. That was in crappy conditions. Completely stock car. If you can't break 12 seconds in an M5 you shouldn't be allowed to drive anything with an M badge on it.

        Backroads? No contest the M5. Weighs less, better balanced, less unsprung weight, handling is absolutely a genuine argument. Us BMW guys actually care about handling. You AMG guys just discovered what that was Click here to enlarge

        M5s are at 550/5xx stock, not modded. Tunes have not been demonstrated to actually do anything. The cars are making more like 640 hp, 560 lb ft at the crank. DCT is definitely shifting quicker than MCT in the E63, and like it or not, that makes a difference in acceleration and in the way you can bend the car to your will during spirited driving. I've driven a C63, does shift fast, but there is a slight delay, from what I've seen the M DCT box is literally telepathic. Haven't had the chance to drive one yet but I don't expect it to disappoint.

        The M157 has turbo upgrades available, and tunes. So far the S63tu has...some exhaust stuff and an intake. Tunes haven't really been shown to exist. Once AMS finishes their turbo upgrade, I'm expecting 800 hp at the crank, and about 650 lb. ft. That's plenty. I would put money on the M5 on the highway any day. Sure the E63 will launch harder, no question. But I'm not launching my car from a dead stop when I drive it. I'm usually rolling onto the throttle while already moving. Once the cars are moving, the M5 will walk the E63.

        None of this is to say the E63 is a bad car, not at all. It's a great car...but I think, in ways that are important to me at least, the M5 is better.
        Right so 11.68 and the fastest one currently belongs to forum member Ghost who ran 11.3 with full exhaust/downpipe and PP-P tune. Still nowhere close to the 10.7 that renntech has run with just down pipes/exhaust, filters, and tune. Its not even in the same league .6 seconds and the renntech cars trap over 130mph.

        Us BMW guys? Now your starting to sound like a fanboy I've owned both bmw and benzes I'm not dedicated to either brand i buy whats currently best according to MY OPINION which obv might not be the same for you so lets not generalize. I think you need to do some catching up on AMG they have been kicking M's ass for the last few years. The C63 coupe went around the ring faster than the m3 coupe. They have no answer for the Black Series besides the very limited GTS even that the BS has proved faster times at the ring.

        Unsprung weight? how so ? you are aware the E63 also has the option of carbon ceramic brakes if thats what your looking for. Every reviewer has said the rwd E63 beat the m5 at its own game the m5 is commonly said to be numb, poor balance etc. Maybe this competition package might change that but the jury is still out on it.
        Plus like i said with all this power in such heavy cars I'm willing to bet us non professional drivers would be faster with the AWD with its ability to put that power down out of corners especially in the real world where its not a perfectly paved and banked turn. I think your stuck in the E46 vs C55 days try out an AMG one day you'll be surprised.

        Don't get me wrong their is no doubt the DCT is superior but not by the crazy margin most make it seem like thats all i was pointing out. Plus for modding MCT is MUCH stronger

        Until i see something out for the m5 ill say well see ! Hope they prove me wrong its only makes the industry better
      1. ezec63's Avatar
        ezec63 -
        O yea and the SLS Black Series if you want to talk about ultimate balance and handling that you bmw guys like to talk so much about. There is nothing from them in the same league