• 6-speed supercharged E92 M3 S65 V8 battle - ESS VT2-650 versus Gintani Stage 2 roll on race

      Finally some ESS versus Gintani supercharged M3 action! These videos are very hard to come by as a video like this can sway perception greatly as to real world performance (dynograph racing is for kids) between the kits. That is why you will not see it on the front page of certain websites. The ESS VT2-650 kit has been claimed to put out over 600 horsepower at the wheels but you do not race graphs, you race cars.


      Here are the specs for both vehicles, the Gintani supercharged M3 is the camera car:

      Mod List - ESS M3
      SGM 08 BMW M3
      ESS VT2- 650 - 8 PSI
      Challenge Race X- Pipe
      Eisenmann Rear Section
      KW V3 Coilovers
      Volk TE37 9.5/10.5 + Yokohama AD08 265/295
      Brembo BBK


      Mod List - Gintani M3 - CAMERA CAR
      MR 08 BMW M3
      Gintani Stage 2 - 7.5 PSI
      RPI X-Pipe
      OEM Rear Section
      H&R Race
      RD Sways
      RPI Scoops
      Toyo R888 275 only rears
      Style 219 OEM Wheels

      Now there are no honks in the video so it appears the Gintani car gets a jump. Regardless, there is no denying it pulls away definitively as which point the ESS supercharged car just gives up and gets off the gas. What explains this results considering the Gintani car has a 7.5 psi boost pulley versus 8.0 for the ESS VT2-650?

      First of all, tuning is an important difference. Gintani Stage 2 kits are usually custom tuned to the application. ESS VT2-650 kits come with a canned tune. One can of course get a custom tune but the actual kit is one size fits all. These are simply different approaches and have their merits but for maximum performance a custom tune tailored to the vehicle and fuel is always preferable.

      Secondly, the Gintani Stage 2 kit features a revised manifold with improved flow. When trying to make the system as efficient as possible the manifold design of course is important. A freer flowing manifold should show less boost.

      Gintani also has a Vortech T-Trim option which is a slightly larger blower capable of more CFM than the V3si ESS uses. Again, pros and cons here as the self-lubricated V3si is very nice from a maintenance perspective and the T-Trim requires tapping the oil pan for lubrication. A pro of tapping the oil pan is the oil can be changed and cooled more easily. A con is if something were to go mechanically wrong with the blower a small piece of metal has a chance (however slim) of entering the cars oil system. Again, pros and cons and there are blower choices available for the Gintani kit although one is locked in with the ESS kit.

      Keep in mind these cars not running meth and the Gintani Stage 2+ setup can run higher boost and more aggressive timing with a custom meth tune which ESS does not offer with their kit.

      Hopefully we see more videos like this as there has been far too much dyno racing by fanboys.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS 650 vs GINTANI STAGE 2 (no meth) both 6 sp started by Wagdaddy View original post
      Comments 90 Comments
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, I totally agree with you - as long as you can stay in the powerband (peaky) - you are golden. Just like an R6 (bike) - the gearing was short, but if you shifted at redline, you would be in the meat of the powerband at next shift.

        All I mean (re: tq multiplication) take two cars/engines with similar power-bands (in terms of area) - but one has a higher redline. The car with the higher redline can shorten gearing to apply more tq to the ground. The car will accelerate faster - it's just like saying a car in 1st gear accelerates faster than a car in 2nd - the horsepower and torque didn't change, but the acceleration does. In other words, having a higher redline is advantageous because it allows you to take advantage of mechanical advantage (torque/leverage). Yes, it's not going to change much at high speeds, when it's all about power - but from say 0-100, it's important. They could gear an F1 engine to "redline" at 8k in each gear instead of 16k, but it's torque would be halved to the ground - and the acceleration would be half of what it was. Again, power and torque at the crank didn't change.

        To your point, it definitely is NOT this simple, there is MUCH more at play in the real world. I just factor in what I can, and try to learn as I go. You are 100% right, without factoring in everything (time/distance) - both cars WILL reach the same distance over a long enough time. How quickly one chooses to get to 30/60/100/etc. in a given distance/time- can be helped by gearing is all I meant by the gearing stuff. It (gearing) doesn't turn a stock M3 into a supercharged M3 killer, that's for sure. Click here to enlarge

        Cheers.




        lol - just sent you my calculations... let me know if you agree.
        i hear ya, just adding my 2 cents, even though i know nothing about it.. other than real world results and ownership Click here to enlarge
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        That definitely was not what I intended to say - not even one bit. I understand what you mean, and hear you - it's not the be-all end-all, especially without factoring in "reality", right? I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        In all seriousness, I blame the car magazines. They should write about this topic, it's one of the most important things/metrics when explaining something like a "torqueless" S2000.

        If you can't physically show someone by either driving them in a car - but must use words instead, why not use the most descriptive/accurate words there are? We all read a car magazine from time to time to compare what car is faster than another. After 40 years of magazines (or whatever), we still have nothing but peak numbers to go off of. Just now, 0-60 is becoming less important, and 1/4 and 0-100/0-160 is starting to trend.

        I honestly don't get it - if I owned a car magazine, I would at a minimum do area under the curve - it seems like one more mouse click once the data is obtained. I don't get it - and it drives me nuts. Click here to enlarge

        I would think the first magazine to actually treat their readers like they are capable of understanding something would win the popularity/accuracy contest - but for some reason, it doesn't happen. Argh. Click here to enlarge
        The S2000 is honestly a perfect example.

        RPM is vital it's like nobody cares.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        That definitely was not what I intended to say - not even one bit. I understand what you mean, and hear you - it's not the be-all end-all, especially without factoring in "reality", right? I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
        lol, my bad, that wasnt directed to you, i was being facetious
      1. mjmarovi's Avatar
        mjmarovi -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        In all seriousness, I blame the car magazines. They should write about this topic, it's one of the most important things/metrics when explaining something like a "torqueless" S2000.

        If you can't physically show someone by either driving them in a car - but must use words instead, why not use the most descriptive/accurate words there are? We all read a car magazine from time to time to compare what car is faster than another. After 40 years of magazines (or whatever), we still have nothing but peak numbers to go off of. Just now, 0-60 is becoming less important, and 1/4 and 0-100/0-160 is starting to trend.

        I honestly don't get it - if I owned a car magazine, I would at a minimum do area under the curve - it seems like one more mouse click once the data is obtained. I don't get it - and it drives me nuts. Click here to enlarge

        I would think the first magazine to actually treat their readers like they are capable of understanding something would win the popularity/accuracy contest - but for some reason, it doesn't happen. Argh. Click here to enlarge
        Let's be honest how many magazine reveiws, TV reviews, or tests have you seen by people who seem to have just been given a crash course on peformance 5 minutes before writing article or recording a show? It's sad really....I've even seen reveiws where the guy said, "Haven't driven a manual in awhile, sorry for missing that gear" really? And you're telling me about how this car shifts and drive?
        @Sticky Yeah man, not trying to attach anyone, and like I said, I'll admit, the more I read the more it seems Gintani is a pretty standup company, but I was not referencing your vehicle, and just because you have personal experience with Gintani doesn't mean that your single video was the video I was referencing...that's just a ridiculous thought.

        Would love to see a Stage 2 Turbo car race these SC M3's 6MT. would be very interesting.
      1. SSO95's Avatar
        SSO95 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
        Lmao... I just love excuses.
        That would be a contributing factor... Think about it, what are the only 4 parts of the car that actually makes contact with the road? Still a fast car nonetheless I'm not trying to take anything away from the video.
      1. WNF_335i's Avatar
        WNF_335i -
        ran the gintani stage 2 car few nights ago mods are in the video
        this is the same 335i that ran the ess 650 car and stayed a nose ahead till i hit the speedo limit all 4 hwy runs
        difference in mods : when i raced the ess car i was running 100% race gas 110oct 70 additive
        gintani car i was running 80/20 94/110 65additive and also bb jb4 backend race flash



        Also ran a dct m3 w/tune same night

      1. inter1032's Avatar
        inter1032 -
        pure edition?
      1. WNF_335i's Avatar
      1. e92livin's Avatar
        e92livin -
        Yeah .. pure edition is nothing crazy just a bunch of fancy trims.. All these edition M's are just money makers nothing really is different - example: lime rock edition..