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    • 6-speed supercharged E92 M3 S65 V8 battle - ESS VT2-650 versus Gintani Stage 2 roll on race

      Finally some ESS versus Gintani supercharged M3 action! These videos are very hard to come by as a video like this can sway perception greatly as to real world performance (dynograph racing is for kids) between the kits. That is why you will not see it on the front page of certain websites. The ESS VT2-650 kit has been claimed to put out over 600 horsepower at the wheels but you do not race graphs, you race cars.


      Here are the specs for both vehicles, the Gintani supercharged M3 is the camera car:

      Mod List - ESS M3
      SGM 08 BMW M3
      ESS VT2- 650 - 8 PSI
      Challenge Race X- Pipe
      Eisenmann Rear Section
      KW V3 Coilovers
      Volk TE37 9.5/10.5 + Yokohama AD08 265/295
      Brembo BBK


      Mod List - Gintani M3 - CAMERA CAR
      MR 08 BMW M3
      Gintani Stage 2 - 7.5 PSI
      RPI X-Pipe
      OEM Rear Section
      H&R Race
      RD Sways
      RPI Scoops
      Toyo R888 275 only rears
      Style 219 OEM Wheels

      Now there are no honks in the video so it appears the Gintani car gets a jump. Regardless, there is no denying it pulls away definitively as which point the ESS supercharged car just gives up and gets off the gas. What explains this results considering the Gintani car has a 7.5 psi boost pulley versus 8.0 for the ESS VT2-650?

      First of all, tuning is an important difference. Gintani Stage 2 kits are usually custom tuned to the application. ESS VT2-650 kits come with a canned tune. One can of course get a custom tune but the actual kit is one size fits all. These are simply different approaches and have their merits but for maximum performance a custom tune tailored to the vehicle and fuel is always preferable.

      Secondly, the Gintani Stage 2 kit features a revised manifold with improved flow. When trying to make the system as efficient as possible the manifold design of course is important. A freer flowing manifold should show less boost.

      Gintani also has a Vortech T-Trim option which is a slightly larger blower capable of more CFM than the V3si ESS uses. Again, pros and cons here as the self-lubricated V3si is very nice from a maintenance perspective and the T-Trim requires tapping the oil pan for lubrication. A pro of tapping the oil pan is the oil can be changed and cooled more easily. A con is if something were to go mechanically wrong with the blower a small piece of metal has a chance (however slim) of entering the cars oil system. Again, pros and cons and there are blower choices available for the Gintani kit although one is locked in with the ESS kit.

      Keep in mind these cars not running meth and the Gintani Stage 2+ setup can run higher boost and more aggressive timing with a custom meth tune which ESS does not offer with their kit.

      Hopefully we see more videos like this as there has been far too much dyno racing by fanboys.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS 650 vs GINTANI STAGE 2 (no meth) both 6 sp started by Wagdaddy View original post
      Comments 90 Comments
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        I find these results a bit confusing given data presented if the cars are 100% as described. Yesterday we were at the Bimmercruise show up here in Canada and they had a mobile Dynojet setup. Among other cars a Gintani Stage 2 S65 went on and did 495whp STD on our 94 Sunoco octane, no meth. Then an ESS-625 car went on and same octane it did 525whp. My car on pump/meth did 505whp with the one-off set of stock hybrids that I have now. How does a Stg2 Gintani car just pull like that on an ess650 car unless something is either wrong with the ess car or does the driver of the ess car really really suck driving it?

        Outside of that, it was nice to see just how much more power under the curve the N54 had over both of the S65 setups. Would be nice to see a race against both S65 setups one day..
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        The same way a 625 kit hits 606 whp on a dynojet out of the box Click here to enlarge
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        The same way a 625 kit hits 606 whp on a dynojet out of the box Click here to enlarge
        lol..

        if only we could find a non blown up ess 650 car to race around here.. id love to get down with one, i should be running the STG 2 DCT/no meth Gintani car shortly that should be fun
        maybe losing to an ess car will make me up my own boost Click here to enlarge i just dont see it happening though
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        lol..

        if only we could find a non blown up ess 650 car to race around here.. id love to get down with one, i should be running the STG 2 DCT/no meth Gintani car shortly that should be fun
        maybe losing to an ess car will make me up my own boost Click here to enlarge i just dont see it happening though
        There is more to this game than just a psi number.. I got one word for you Lost ROTREX Click here to enlarge
      1. WNF_335i's Avatar
        WNF_335i -
        the two suoercharged m3s you seen at bimmercruise are the same ones running in this video. my buddy with the gintani rstage two m3 put out 495 and 491 first two runs i think he said they were third gear pulls, his last pull on the dyno was a fourth gear pull and put out 603
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        There is more to this game than just a psi number.. I got one word for you Lost ROTREX Click here to enlarge
        AMEN to that one! people just dont understand.. I have a feeling they will respect the different S/C choice and perfect tuning soon enough Click here to enlarge
      1. e92livin's Avatar
        e92livin -
        That is correct, I put down 495whp on the first pull which was done in third and 491whp on the second pull in third. The last pull was done in fourth gear which hit 603whp. The machine could not read my torque numbers because the operator could not find a spark plug wire to hook up too, so that was pretty $#@!ty. It was my first time operating my own car on a dyno.... all runs were done on 94 octane with the same mods listed above.
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        For the record you will show more hp in 5th. If you look at the mph most sc are going you can tell they are using 5th which gains around 15 whp more than 4th on avg.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92livin Click here to enlarge
        That is correct, I put down 495whp on the first pull which was done in third and 491whp on the second pull in third. The last pull was done in fourth gear which hit 603whp. The machine could not read my torque numbers because the operator could not find a spark plug wire to hook up too, so that was pretty $#@!ty. It was my first time operating my own car on a dyno.... all runs were done on 94 octane with the same mods listed above.
        dyno is a dyno, and a win is a win Click here to enlarge

        If you believed all the dyno #s then the gintani car was a waste of gas for the other car.. BUT, in reality, things aren't so easily disguised Click here to enlarge Nice work!
      1. e92livin's Avatar
        e92livin -
        The owner of the DJ could not get me readings of my torque numbers, which I was pretty pissed about because another E92 M3 went up after and he got the readings for that car. He said my intake was covering the wire he needed to access. For the record I won Dyno King at that even for my 603whp pull in foruth Click here to enlarge. Hopefully we can set up a few passes at the next 1/4 mile event on September 22 here in Canada.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92livin Click here to enlarge
        the next 1/4 mile event on September 22 here in Canada
        Who's hosting it? Cayuga?
      1. e92livin's Avatar
        e92livin -
        Yeah, for CSCS.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92livin Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, for CSCS.
        What did you run last time out?
      1. e92livin's Avatar
        e92livin -
        Never ran a 1/4 mile pass with the supercharger yet.
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92livin Click here to enlarge
        Never ran a 1/4 mile pass with the supercharger yet.
        Is yours grey or a red m3?
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        There is more to this game than just a psi number.. I got one word for you Lost ROTREX Click here to enlarge
        +1

        I mean, ESS' smoke & mirrors tuning" vs. Evolve and the Rotrex...... http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...-Evolve-vs-ESS
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92livin Click here to enlarge
        The owner of the DJ could not get me readings of my torque numbers, which I was pretty pissed about because another E92 M3 went up after and he got the readings for that car. He said my intake was covering the wire he needed to access. For the record I won Dyno King at that even for my 603whp pull in foruth Click here to enlarge. Hopefully we can set up a few passes at the next 1/4 mile event on September 22 here in Canada.
        Mike@Engines Unlimited (owner of the mobile dyno from the Bimmercruise 2013 show) sent these charts over to me tonight. Just throwing this out there to show you that unless your car is tuned to limit boost or do something funny in one gear vs another or your clutch badly slipping there's no way to gain 100+whp from one gear to the next. I don't know why you felt the need to say your first two runs were in 3rd either when all three given the vehicle speed graph were done in the same gear, 4th.

        Good luck out there...sucks a bit for the ESS-650 owner who did 525whp not to be taking that trophy home..Keep in mind, I have nothing against you nor do I have anything to do with S65s or their supercharger kits or the various companies that make those kits or Gintani. I actually love their work! This was just purely curiosity as I was surprised a supercharger kit on the stock S65 would behave the way you described without something being off. 495-500whp is nothing to be ashamed about on just pump gas and those numbers will do great out there no doubt especially with m3's gearing.

        Click here to enlarge
      1. VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        VargasTurboTech -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by e92livin Click here to enlarge
        That is correct, I put down 495whp on the first pull which was done in third and 491whp on the second pull in third. The last pull was done in fourth gear which hit 603whp. The machine could not read my torque numbers because the operator could not find a spark plug wire to hook up too, so that was pretty $#@!ty. It was my first time operating my own car on a dyno.... all runs were done on 94 octane with the same mods listed above.
        All the spark plug wire does is provide the RPM signal for the vehicle so you can track that on the dyno screem. It has zero to do with the DJ being able to read HP or TQ, if it can read HP it can read tq as they are both read from the same roller, just with different equations to get the numbers. Something smells a little fishy here.
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@PTF Click here to enlarge
        Mike@Engines Unlimited (owner of the mobile dyno from the Bimmercruise 2013 show) sent these charts over to me tonight. Just throwing this out there to show you that unless your car is tuned to limit boost or do something funny in one gear vs another or your clutch badly slipping there's no way to gain 100+whp from one gear to the next. I don't know why you felt the need to say your first two runs were in 3rd either when all three given the vehicle speed graph were done in the same gear, 4th.

        Good luck out there...sucks a bit for the ESS-650 owner who did 525whp not to be taking that trophy home..Keep in mind, I have nothing against you nor do I have anything to do with S65s or their supercharger kits or the various companies that make those kits or Gintani. I actually love their work! This was just purely curiosity as I was surprised a supercharger kit on the stock S65 would behave the way you described without something being off. 495-500whp is nothing to be ashamed about on just pump gas and those numbers will do great out there no doubt especially with m3's gearing.

        http://www.germanboost.com/images/im...3_zps68d-1.jpg
        Is that the graph? If so no way in hell could you count that as a run. Sometimes our dyno freaks out and it reads 1500 whp. Counting a spike from one run is not how you claim hp numbers... Ess customer tricks !
      1. dzenno@PTF's Avatar
        dzenno@PTF -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        Is that the graph? If so no way in hell could you count that as a run. Sometimes out dyno freaks out and it reads 1500 whp. Counting a spike from one run is not how you claim hp numbers... Ess customer tricks !
        Yes, those are the graphs that the Gintani Stage 2 car claimed 603whp with Click here to enlarge I hope they didn't see the graphs and just went off of what they were told. At this event, the other ESS-650 car did 525whp, mine with a one-off set of stock hybrids did 505whp so the ESS-650 car should've really won the event but the prize was given to the Gintani car for the spiked graph lol its ok, its all good times but things like this (miscommunication) can cause some nasty online arguments