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    • HPF Stage 2 Turbo S54 versus Active Autowerke supercharged S65 - E46 M3 versus E92 M3 - Torque versus horsepower

      Interesting race here showing the difference between two forced induction options offering different power curves. The Horsepower Freaks (RIP) Stage 2 Turbo E46 M3 in the video is definitely making more torque than the Active Autowerke Gen II Level III supercharged E92 M3. But, the E92 M3 is making its torque peak toward redline and having extra revs over the S54 inline-6 in the E46 M3 definitely shows its strength here as the supercharged E92 M3 is able to beat the turbocharged E46 M3.

      Both cars have meth injection and both are on the stock engine internals. The E46 M3 is slightly lighter but the E92 M3 has the quicker shifting transmission. The supercharged car wins this round no doubt causing a lot of turbo E46 M3 owners proclaiming superiority due to peak torque figures to scratch their heads. It's where you make the horsepower that counts in a roll on race and combine a strong top end with a quick shifting dual clutch and you have the result you see here.

      It will be interesting to see what happens when built motor E92 M3 S65 V8's go up against built motor E46 M3 S54 inline-6's. BimmerBoost will be sure to make that comparison happen.




      This article was originally published in forum thread: AA E92 LvL 3 VS Widebody HPF Level 2 started by Andrew@activeautowerke View original post
      Comments 95 Comments
      1. alex@ABRhouston's Avatar
        alex@ABRhouston -
        Daaaaaaaaaang! Click here to enlarge
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Yeah I put down 1000 hp and about 800tq but my foot slipped off the pedal so I don't have a clean run to postClick here to enlarge
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
        No but I have a stage 3 green machine with carbon fiber pedals and a high performance plastic wheel
        Attachment 31240
        lol - "for guys 8,9,10 years old who really know how to ride" - where the heck did you find this? Click here to enlarge
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        lol - "for guys 8,9,10 years old who really know how to ride" - where the heck did you find this? Click here to enlarge
        I just traded my v8 big wheel in on it.Attachment 31241
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        IIRC, this same E92 is listed elsewhere with 750bhp. So that would put it somewhere slightly lower than 650whp, maybe 640whp. Regardless, still higher than the stage 2 hpf.
        750 BHP / ~640 RWHP on a is going to be 10-11 psi on a stock motor/stock compression with a bolt-on supercharger kit. That's not only a very aggressive setup & would require 100+ octane, it would also be setting a stock motor WHP record (which I'd expect to be a little more advertised) and is def in the grey area with long term reliability on stock components.


        Is it feasible? Absolutely, just add another 1-2 psi and hope the engine stays together because it's prob not a long term/reliable setup. Regardless, the turbo E46 M3 is still going to have a better powerband than the supercharged E92 M3.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Regardless, the turbo E46 M3 is still going to have a better powerband than the supercharged E92 M3.
        Not better, just more torque down low but also not as linear.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Regardless, these videos are crappy. Yes I have seen similar cars run in person. A stage 2 hpf with proper traction and good tuning can definitely beat a stage 2 AA E9x M3. Lets discuss this when a proper video with better info on both cars are presented.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        A stage 2 hpf with proper traction and good tuning can definitely beat a stage 2 AA E9x M3. Lets discuss this when a proper video with better info on both cars are presented.
        Based on what? 1/4 mile times say the opposite though, how is that?

        Anyway, like I said, I definitely intend to do the whole S54 versus S65 thing. Having owned both it's a topic dear to my heart.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        1/4 times are a lot different than roll racing.. depending on car setup. This isn't the only video posted showing a stage 2 or even a stage 1 w/ e85 vs a supercharged e9x m3 fyi. Go search the web a bit. But like I said, this is a waste of a discussion due to crappy video with crappy info. Good luck finding some turbo e46 guys to help you with your comparison. You aren't the only person that has owned both btw. But for now, I'll stick to my stance, turbo E46 M3s are the King right now.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        1/4 times are a lot different than roll racing.. depending on car setup.
        I'll give you this that there is an aspect of this that is very true. However, usually trap speed will point to the faster roll on car.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        This isn't the only video posted showing a stage 2 or even a stage 1 w/ e85 vs a supercharged e9x m3 fyi. Go search the web a bit.
        You are welcome to post them I try to keep apprised of everything but obviously can't see every video.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        Good luck finding some turbo e46 guys to help you with your comparison. You aren't the only person that has owned both btw. But for now, I'll stick to my stance, turbo E46 M3s are the King right now.
        See I disagree as the E92 M3 has shown to be the more efficient platform that is better for drag racing. Just look at how it got into the 10's and at what power level versus the E46 m3.

        I love the E46 m3 don't get me wrong I just think some of the turbo E46 M3 guys just don't know what they're talking about. No problem with that, I'll prove it.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'll give you this that there is an aspect of this that is very true. However, usually trap speed will point to the faster roll on car.
        I guess this would go against the F10 M5s that are beating these Z06 cars right?!!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        I guess this would go against the F10 M5s that are beating these Z06 cars right?!!
        I'm not exactly convinced on that but this is a good example of a car that picks up more once moving (the M5) as it is heavy so the Z06's weight favors it from a stop tremendously. Still, the Z06 should beat it as we have seen videos of a C63 stock with the P31 package beating the M5 as well.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        See I disagree as the E92 M3 has shown to be the more efficient platform that is better for drag racing. Just look at how it got into the 10's and at what power level versus the E46 m3.
        You like to refer to the E92 M3 hitting 10s vs the E46 M3. Its a secret that the E46 M3 is better at roll racing than 1/4. There's a video of a stg 1 w/ E85 beating a VF620 E92 M3. I'm pretty sure the E92 would have had a better trap speed if they were running the 1/4. But unfortunately, they weren't.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm not exactly convinced on that but this is a good example of a car that picks up more once moving (the M5) as it is heavy so the Z06's weight favors it from a stop tremendously. Still, the Z06 should beat it as we have seen videos of a C63 stock with the P31 package beating the M5 as well.
        And there are F10 M5s that have beaten P31 C63s. A F10 M5 that beats a z06 is not losing to a P31 C63.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        You like to refer to the E92 M3 hitting 10s vs the E46 M3. Its a secret that the E46 M3 is better at roll racing than 1/4. There's a video of a stg 1 w/ E85 beating a VF620 E92 M3. I'm pretty sure the E92 would have had a better trap speed if they were running the 1/4. But unfortunately, they weren't.
        Both cars will be better at roll racing by virtue of their top end design and the S65 revs higher.

        I mean there is this video that shows the Stage 2 getting beat. The E92 M3 is stronger than people realize especially with DCT I'm not sure if the car you were referring to was.

        And yes, the E92 M3 hit 10's faster and I think even before the E46 did and it did it with less power. It can hit 130 trap speeds with less power and torque that says a lot.

        Like I said, I intend to revisit this topic with my own car and some more powerful E46 M3's. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Both cars will be better at roll racing by virtue of their top end design and the S65 revs higher.

        I mean there is this video that shows the Stage 2 getting beat. The E92 M3 is stronger than people realize especially with DCT I'm not sure if the car you were referring to was.

        And yes, the E92 M3 hit 10's faster and I think even before the E46 did and it did it with less power. It can hit 130 trap speeds with less power and torque that says a lot.

        Like I said, I intend to revisit this topic with my own car and some more powerful E46 M3's. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
        The E9x M3 may have the advantage on the jump bc most of the hpf guys don't pull as hard due to traction, but as long as the race doesn't end in 3 seconds, you'll see the hpf M3 walk right past you. These 800+ turbo M3s aren't going down to a supercharged e9x car. You need more power.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SexiPYm3 Click here to enlarge
        The E9x M3 may have the advantage on the jump bc most of the hpf guys don't pull as hard due to traction, but as long as the race doesn't end in 3 seconds, you'll see the hpf M3 walk right past you. These 800+ turbo M3s aren't going down to a supercharged e9x car. You need more power.
        I'll remind you of this.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        See I disagree as the E92 M3 has shown to be the more efficient platform that is better for drag racing. Just look at how it got into the 10's and at what power level versus the E46 m3.
        The DCT makes a huge difference, especially when you've got Launch Control & don't have to worry about near perfect gear shifts. Line up 6MTs & it'd be a little more interesting.
      1. SexiPYm3's Avatar
        SexiPYm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The DCT makes a huge difference, especially when you've got Launch Control & don't have to worry about near perfect gear shifts. Line up 6MTs & it'd be a little more interesting.
        All that is great and all, but this video isn't a dig race, its a roll race. Launch control doesn't matter. And the all mighty dct is less of an advantage in roll racing vs 1/4 racing. It would make more of a difference if the race was very very close. Everyone loves talking about DCT like its going to make up a huge difference at these higher speeds. I've watched videos of hpf cars putting bus lengths on E9x M3s. DCT isn't changing that outcome. Now if the race is a matter of a car length distance, then yes, it would matter more. But like I said before, a stage 2 hpf car that has proper tuning and traction should pull on a stage 2 e9x m3 at the top of 4th gear.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        The DCT makes a huge difference, especially when you've got Launch Control & don't have to worry about near perfect gear shifts. Line up 6MTs & it'd be a little more interesting.
        Agreed but you can't separate the DCT as part of the picture just like you can't with the GTR. It's a reality and an advantage.