• 335/N54 fanboys get panties in a twist over a bolt on DCT E92 M3 pulling a JB4 tuned bolt on 335i

      Oh yes, here we go the millionth time, the ever popular 335 versus M3 discussion. A user posted the video below of a bolt on DCT E92 M3 pulling a JB4 tuned 335i in the forums and the N54 fanboys went for the pitchforks and torches. For whatever reason 335 owners in particular seem to really want to attack the E92 M3 perhaps in justification of their own purchase. There is the typical "oh I didn't get an M3 because a tuned 335 is faster" nonsense that N54 fanboys tend to comfort themselves with in the never ending M3 versus 335 debate.


      Even though the 335 in this video may have more power and torque in tuned form which the fanboys love to point out the other side of the coin is that the M3's redline and transmission are a huge advantage. Gearing is an area the M3 simply has an advantage over the 335 in and the transmission makes a big difference as one can see the shift speed in lower gears is really what gives the M3 the gains it sees in the race early on.

      Up top, the tuned 335's horsepower advantage comes into play as the cars spend more time in gear negating the gear change advantage provided by the DCT allowing the 335 to inch up and close the gap.

      This video is a good real world example as without race gas or meth a 335 will struggle against a tuned M3 especially one with DCT. Of course 335 owners will point out they can upgrade their turbos. Then M3 owners will say they can supercharge. Then the debate escalates and escalate and there are dozens of pages to read of M3 and 335 owners essentially throwing feces at each other. BMW fans, just enjoy 335 versus M3 round 400,000 in the video below.

      M3 is the camera car.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: New video-DCT m3 takes down a FBO 335 with jb4, downpipes, FMIC and intake started by Wannbm5 View original post
      Comments 315 Comments
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's a 4.0 liter V8 with 8400 rpm there isn't much that can be done to change that.
        ahhhh so an LS or... say the 5.0 engine is superior as well then? even more capacity and they *can* rev just as high/higher.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The reply is exactly as stated it is the OEM block and OEM heads. Not sure what you are talking about again.
        well now you're just being facetious

        stock bottom end internals and or sleeves... stock valvetrain/ports... untouched crank.... unopened/factory original, is what 'stock' means.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        ahhhh so an LS or... say the 5.0 engine is superior as well then? even more capacity and they *can* rev just as high/higher.
        Ultimately displacement will be the limiting factor. Fortunately the S65 is designed to rev high which how this is mitigated but an S65 is never going to be an S85 for the same reasons.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        well now you're just being facetious

        stock bottom end internals and or sleeves... stock valvetrain/ports...
        How so? It's an OEM block and I have OEM heads. What is the problem?
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ultimately displacement will be the limiting factor. Fortunately the S65 is designed to rev high which how this is mitigated but an S65 is never going to be an S85 for the same reasons.
        and the S85 has never shown itself to tend to sky high levels of power?

        whether this is just because no one has bothered trying though...
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        How so? It's an OEM block and I have OEM heads. What is the problem?
        with completely factory original internals/running parts?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        and the S85 has never shown itself to tend to sky high levels of power?

        whether this is just because no one has bothered trying though...
        The S85 has made 1800 or so HP I believe.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        with completely factory original internals/running parts?
        Nobody said OEM pistons and rods...
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The S85 has made 1800 or so HP I believe.
        ahh i found a video from 3 years ago

        haven't seen it running in any car?
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Nobody said OEM pistons and rods...
        you know just as well as i do that 'stock block and head' mean the WHOLE thing (including contents/moving parts) is OEM.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        you know just as well as i do that 'stock block and head' mean the WHOLE thing (including contents/moving parts) is OEM.
        Um no because I can differentiate between a block, and pistons, and rods, and crank, and heads, and bearings, etc. That's also why they have shortblocks, longblocks, etc.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Um no because I can differentiate between a block, and pistons, and rods, and crank, and heads, and bearings, etc. That's also why they have shortblocks, longblocks, etc.
        .... yes

        when talking about 'do you have stock head and stock block'

        that IS what people mean

        if someone wants to JUST know about pistons/crank whatever.. then THAT is specifically asked about

        it would be very rare for someone to ask 'stock block?' and actually mean if the block was custom made or from the factory... more often even if not internals, it'll be asking if it's AT LEAST sleeved/bored... in which case your answer is still yes? so your block isn't completely stock no matter if you're talking about actual internals, or the structure of the block itself

        same for your head, i'm assuming it's had a port/valve job at least? in which case it's not exactly OEM, since it has less material.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        My lame is excuse is making more power than any other E9X and making so much of it the clutches slip at 7250 rpm. That's a lame excuse? Sorry I'm making too much power that's pretty damn lame.
        Until your car is up, running & actually beating other notable cars, you're just bench racing. And to date Terry has the fastest, most consistent N54 & Drew's VT3 is the fastest E9x M3.

        You can keep bragging about setting the E9x power record & what the numbers on your dyno sheet, but until you put it on the tarmac it's not worth $#@!.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        .... yes

        when talking about 'do you have stock head and stock block'

        that IS what people mean

        if someone wants to JUST know about pistons/crank whatever.. then THAT is specifically asked about

        it would be very rare for someone to ask 'stock block?' and actually mean if the block was custom made or from the factory... more often even if not internals, it'll be asking if it's AT LEAST sleeved/bored... in which case your answer is still yes? so your block isn't completely stock no matter if you're talking about actual internals, or the structure of the block itself

        same for your head, i'm assuming it's had a port/valve job at least? in which case it's not exactly OEM, since it has less material.
        I don't see how it would be rare to ask stock block and mean something entirely different than the question. It's not an aftermarket block, it's the block that came with the car. If someone wants details on if the INTERNALS are built then ask that question. I usually ask built motor or not, simple.

        You ask if it's sleeved or bored? Good, then you'll get an answer to that question. As the answer to the question is it an OEM block is that yep, it's an OEM block manufactured by BMW last time I checked.

        No porting and think I'm still on the stock valves too. Blessing of having an awesome NA motor as the basis.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Until your car is up, running & actually beating other notable cars, you're just bench racing. And to date Terry has the fastest, most consistent N54 & Drew's VT3 is the fastest E9x M3.

        You can keep bragging about setting the E9x power record & what the numbers on your dyno sheet, but until you put it on the tarmac it's not worth $#@!.
        Bench racing is racing with text with little to no basis with real results achieved. My car has the numbers. Drews isn't the fastest he avoids the strip like the baby he is. Because nobody else is going to pay for his transmission, not even ESS no matter how hard he bends over for them.

        I will keep bragging about having the most powerful E9X because I do and until someone else proves otherwise. It's a step forward pure and simple and the reality is I have the record. If that isn't worth $#@! to you I don't care but I'm not playing around with 4XX wheel hp here.
      1. G0TB00ST?'s Avatar
        G0TB00ST? -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Bench racing is racing with text with little to no basis with real results achieved. My car has the numbers. Drews isn't the fastest he avoids the strip like the baby he is. Because nobody else is going to pay for his transmission, not even ESS no matter how hard he bends over for them.

        I will keep bragging about having the most powerful E9X because I do and until someone else proves otherwise. It's a step forward pure and simple and the reality is I have the record. If that isn't worth $#@! to you I don't care but I'm not playing around with 4XX wheel hp here.
        Burn! *in Michael kelso voice*
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If that isn't worth $#@! to you I don't care but I'm not playing around with 4XX wheel hp here.
        BUT the best part about my 4xx WHP is that it actually works Click here to enlarge For the record, this is what clutch slip looks like:

        Attachment 31108
        Attachment 31109


        NOT like the awkward downward section on your dyno graph @ 5k RPMs, which looks more like a tuning or hardware related problem. Using simple logic, here's how I'll support my claim: IF you were having clutch slip at 5,000 RPMs & 440 TQ, how is it possible that it was able "catch" & maintain grip for an additional 100 Ft Lbs (estimating "peak" TQ at just over 550 Ft Lbs from the dyno sheet)? The answer is it can't. If you look at the two graphs I posted, once the cars hit the TQ value the slipping starts at, the cars are incapable of successfully maintaing the curve & putting down the power, BUT your car somehow "caught" and successfully maintained the curve another 2.5k+ RPMs

        Attachment 31110
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        BUT the best part about my 4xx WHP is that it actually works
        Yes when you do something easy it's easy to make it work. Big fish or little fish? What do you prefer to be? You made your choice.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        For the record, this is what clutch slip looks like:
        On those particular dynojets with that particular smoothing with that particular clutch setup sure. I guess I'm just building my trans again for fun eh?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        NOT like the awkward downward section on your dyno graph @ 5k RPMs, which looks more like a tuning or hardware related problem. Using simple logic, here's how I'll support my claim: IF you were having clutch slip at 5,000 RPMs & 440 TQ, how is it possible that it was able "catch" & maintain grip for an additional 100 Ft Lbs (estimating "peak" TQ at just over 550 Ft Lbs from the dyno sheet)? The answer is it can't. If you look at the two graphs I posted, once the cars hit the TQ value the slipping starts at, the cars are incapable of successfully maintaing the curve & putting down the power, BUT your car somehow "caught" and successfully maintained the curve another 2.5k+ RPMs
        Why don't you pick up your phone and ask Gintani rather than engage in rampant negative rumors? If the line pressure was upped at certain rpm what do you think would happen?

        Of course it can't be what I said, or Gintani stated, or anything of the sort. It has to be something else from the company that is also tuning turbos on the S65 V8 on the stock DME.

        Go ahead and create a thread throwing this out there and we can have Gintani respond. I've got nothing to hide just start writing your apology now.
      1. Flinchy's Avatar
        Flinchy -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't see how it would be rare to ask stock block and mean something entirely different than the question. It's not an aftermarket block, it's the block that came with the car. If someone wants details on if the INTERNALS are built then ask that question. I usually ask built motor or not, simple.

        You ask if it's sleeved or bored? Good, then you'll get an answer to that question. As the answer to the question is it an OEM block is that yep, it's an OEM block manufactured by BMW last time I checked.

        No porting and think I'm still on the stock valves too. Blessing of having an awesome NA motor as the basis.
        ok, if you want it that plainly... is it sleeved/bored?.. 'built'? (though i've surmised as much from other posts), what other internal modifications on have you done to get to where you are?

        and what modifications have been done to said OEM head... completely stock? any reason not to port just to see if there's anything AT ALL to gain? or did you get it looked at and it really was THAT good?

        stock springs/retainers/etc. etc. too?
      1. justohigh's Avatar
        justohigh -
        When I hear stock block and head, people are usually referring to the parts inside also. As I was saying earlier about the s2000, the 700whp has been made on stock piston, rods, bearings, etc. If you don't think that is built stronger out the factory than the s65 than you are nuts. Keep in mind its a 2.0L 4cyl. Never seen an s65 do that, but there has been a particular bmw motor that has. Here's a hint. Starts with an N and ends with a 4.