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    • 2014 BMW F80 M3 expected to weigh 220 pounds less than the E90 M3 and have 450 horsepower?

      Interesting claim here regarding the curb weight of the next generation F80 M3. Now the horsepower is expected to be in the 450 range. CAR Magazine claimed the car would have 444 horses so ~450 seems to be the right range. This not as big of a jump as the E46 M3 to the E92 M3 or the new F10 M5 to the previous generation E60 M5 but BMW only made about a 60 horsepower jump with the new M5 model at the crank although the horsepower numbers at the wheels point to far more.

      I would expect the same with the new M3 that for the wheel horsepower gains on the F80 to exceed the crank horsepower difference presented by BMW between the F80 and the E90 M3's. This power increase combined with a claimed weight loss by 220 pounds would make for an M3 that performs very well.

      The thing is, 220 pounds is a lot to shave off the F30. And if the F80 M3 undercuts the E90 M3 by 220 pounds that means it would weigh somewhere in the 33XX pound range. Owners have weighed their E92/E90 M3's in the 35XX pound range. Confusion arises that the E9X is heavy because BMW lists its European weight which includes a 75kg driver.

      BMW claims the current F30 335i weighs 3555 pounds. So, about what an E92 M3 weighs. That would mean if the rumor for 100 kg weight loss were correct the F80 M3 would undercut the F30 335i and E92 M3 by 220 pounds. That means weight less than an E46 M3 as well, not happening. What is more likely is that BMW will undercut the 3704 pound curb weight they provide for the E92 M3 putting the F80 M3 somewhere in the 35XX pound range or just about the exact same as the E90/E92.

      We will find out soon enough with the car expected at the Los Angeles Auto Show in November.




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      This article was originally published in forum thread: 2014 BMW F80 M3 expected to weigh 220 pounds less than the E90 M3 and have 450 horsepower? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 91 Comments
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        Where were all of you during the e46 or e36 years? Where doing bolt ons got you a minimal gain. Now all of a sudden these hp are coming out the wood works.
        I was on dtmpower.net.....I had a e36 328 in high school/ college, wishing I could get more power out of it then just my bolt ons I could afford at the time..... Back then a turbo e36 m3 was rare as hell but back then a bolt on e36 m3 was a fast car. In the twisties, few cars could keep up with a e36 m3. That was before the USA has s4's, sti's, evo's, cts-v's, Lexus isf's, gtr (unless imported), m5's, fast abundant amg Mercedes cars etc....the list goes on.

        The landscape has changed since the e36m and even e46 m3 days. A car enthusiast after speed and luxury has many more options now with big power. BMW needs to step it up....and this new f80 m will be thier answer
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        People just seem to want an HP platform now not a drivers car.
        Why can't we have both? If BMW can accomplish that....u won't buy one?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I was on dtmpower.net.....I had a e36 328 in high school/ college, wishing I could get more power out of it then just my bolt ons I could afford at the time..... Back then a turbo e36 m3 was rare as hell but back then a bolt on e36 m3 was a fast car. In the twisties, few cars could keep up with a e36 m3. That was before the USA has s4's, sti's, evo's, cts-v's, Lexus isf's, gtr (unless imported), m5's, fast abundant amg Mercedes cars etc....the list goes on.

        The landscape has changed since the e36m and even e46 m3 days. A car enthusiast after speed and luxury has many more options now with big power. BMW needs to step it up....and this new f80 m will be thier answer
        DTMpower... that brings back the memories.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Why can't we have both? If BMW can accomplish that....u won't buy one?
        The BMW M cars always were hp platforms. The problem is now people want HP for free.

        I always liked to the idea of adding forced induction to a superior motor. Oh well...
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The BMW M cars always were hp platforms. The problem is now people want HP for free.

        I always liked to the idea of adding forced induction to a superior motor. Oh well...

        There is nothing wrong with getting hp for free, especially if the chassis it resides in is "a drivers car"
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        I hope M cars offer a powerpack. The one thing I never agreed with that having a car with a 6 or 7 year run cycle and never ever increasing the power as the life cycle goes on is ridiculous. Power today is way different than power in 6 years in terms of what is available. To me it made the e92 really outdated the last 2 years of its cycel. 414 hp no longer cut it with rs5 450, amg pp 460 etc. Bmw seems so stupid to me sometimes. Every other company gets the emissions or the legal $#@! taken care of to bring their hardcore models to the US and time and time again the m3 never gets any of the good packages and in general the whole series did not recieve any bump which EASILY could have been done. Could have reworked the camshaft lift, tune and manifold or something pretty easy and gotten an easy 30 more hp out of it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        There is nothing wrong with getting hp for free, especially if the chassis it resides in is "a drivers car"
        There is if you sacrifice response to do so.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        I hope M cars offer a powerpack. The one thing I never agreed with that having a car with a 6 or 7 year run cycle and never ever increasing the power as the life cycle goes on is ridiculous. Power today is way different than power in 6 years in terms of what is available. To me it made the e92 really outdated the last 2 years of its cycel. 414 hp no longer cut it with rs5 450, amg pp 460 etc. Bmw seems so stupid to me sometimes. Every other company gets the emissions or the legal $#@! taken care of to bring their hardcore models to the US and time and time again the m3 never gets any of the good packages and in general the whole series did not recieve any bump which EASILY could have been done. Could have reworked the camshaft lift, tune and manifold or something pretty easy and gotten an easy 30 more hp out of it.
        The RS5 at 450 horsepower is still slower than the M3 at 414. Not all horses are created equal.

        414 horsepower is more than adequate and the M3 will outlap any of the cars you mentioned. I mean if you just want power BMW isn't the car for you.

        And yes, BMW will be offering performance packages since it is really just different software.

        BMW went about it the right way getting more out of the M3 with the GTS by stroking the motor.
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        Sticky I am so sick of that arguement that if you want power, and m3 is not for you. That is so ridiculous. The fact is the AMG PP will outlap the m3 on any track with the same driver. The later ones handle as well as the m car. The Rs5 is about as quick given the hp I know but that is not the point. The RS5 and C63 now match or beat the m3 at almost anything.

        And you really should know better from the sounds of your knowledge that you can have the highest power and handling. The c63 pp does it best. WAY faster in a straight and as fast in the turns and track. So what do you mean you can't do both? Its a total excuse m3 users make I feel. Its one thing if there was no other car that could match it in the turns or track like the old days but the fact is even a god damn camaro and mustang match the m3 or beact it in the turns, track and straights. So the m3 will be nobodys choice if they keep that up. Hence they are going big power with turbo so clearly even bmw sees this...but yet you do not. You disagree just for the point of it. You sound miserable given your other threads that this board is not going as well as you like so you are just an angry person. Feels negative energy exuding
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        Sticky I am so sick of that arguement that if you want power, and m3 is not for you. That is so ridiculous. The fact is the AMG PP will outlap the m3 on any track with the same driver. The later ones handle as well as the m car. The Rs5 is about as quick given the hp I know but that is not the point. The RS5 and C63 now match or beat the m3 at almost anything.
        It's ridiculous to say the M3 is not a straightline car? Really? I suppose it's ridiculous to say the same about the GT3. These are drivers cars, not drag racers.

        The AMG isn't outlapping it I don't know what you are talking about. The tighter the course, the more the M3 is favored. It takes the Black Series to challenge the M3 on the track.

        You went by the RS5's hp rating as if that matters. It's still sending power to all four wheels through a dual clutch and still is heavy. The M3 spanks it and isn't brand new so why are you applauding the RS5 instead of the other way around?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        And you really should know better from the sounds of your knowledge that you can have the highest power and handling. The c63 pp does it best.
        Um the P31 package adds a more aggressive tune so what? Tune the M3 too with more aggressive software, yay.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        WAY faster in a straight and as fast in the turns and track.
        I don't know what you're basing this on the but the M3 is lighter, better balanced, and simply handles better than the C63. So, you are incorrect.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        So what do you mean you can't do both?
        Who said you can't?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        Its a total excuse m3 users make I feel. Its one thing if there was no other car that could match it in the turns or track like the old days but the fact is even a god damn camaro and mustang match the m3 or beact it in the turns, track and straights.
        Wow new cars come out that can match the raw numbers of the M3 when it has the smallest V8. Take a look at the M3 GTS then. Now what?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        So the m3 will be nobodys choice if they keep that up. Hence they are going big power with turbo so clearly even bmw sees this...but yet you do not. You disagree just for the point of it. You sound miserable given your other threads that this board is not going as well as you like so you are just an angry person. Feels negative energy exuding
        BMW is going turbos for emissions not because you think they need some power figure to satisfy you. I disagree because you are wrong. You think I'm angry because I'm providing a different view point than you? And um, the board is going pretty damn well hence why AMS just signed up unless that's a small name for you? I think you're the one exuding negative energy. Try to defend your points rather than attack baselessly, getting difficult?
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        S4 V8 was a de-tuned weak v8 that put down poor numbers
        much like the S65, except it wasnt detuned, just weak
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        much like the S65, except it wasnt detuned, just weak
        Idiotic comment. Same junk rehashed but I'm not sure if you really believe this or not. Yeah, what a weak motor that exceeds anything else done on the E9X platfom and is making retarded power.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        There is if you sacrifice response to do so.
        Your assuming things...don't use a stock 335 or n20 328's response and act like that's what the new m will be like. How does a e46 328 response feel compared to a e46 m3? Until the new turbo m is released, you won't know, your assuming things.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Your assuming things...don't use a stock 335 or n20 328's response and act like that's what the new m will be like. How does a e46 328 response feel compared to a e46 m3? Until the new turbo m is released, you won't know, your assuming things.
        The 328 doesn't have turbo lag but it also doesn't have independent throttle bodies. The E46 M3 is razor sharp, no new M motor will match it.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The 328 doesn't have turbo lag but it also doesn't have independent throttle bodies. The E46 M3 is razor sharp, no new M motor will match it.
        My point is, until you drive the new m, you can't say it won't be responsive, why just bc it's turbo? Ok.... Let's see. U and many others are basing thier opinions of bmw's m turbo engines based on thier non m counterparts.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        My point is, until you drive the new m, you can't say it won't be responsive, why just bc it's turbo? Ok.... Let's see. U and many others are basing thier opinions of bmw's m turbo engines based on thier non m counterparts.
        BMW themselves already stated the turbo motors can't match the previous NA M motors. What exactly can be done to the new M3 that will make it leaps and bounds more responsive than the turbo motors BMW has already shown? What is there I need to drive to see? I'm speaking of the M counterparts.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Where did BMW specifically say the throttle response on the new turbo motor won't match the current NA motors?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Where did BMW specifically say the throttle response on the new turbo motor won't match the current NA motors?
        http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...-their-own-car
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Sounds to me like they are working towards the same response....saying "we're getting damn close" on a car that isn't released yet.....maybe they will be there? The fact they are working on it shows to me they see its importance and will not let the new engines lose that. Sorry, I see what your saying, but this doesn't worry me one bit. People act as if the new turbo m motors will be the end of m bmw's, I just don't believe it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        Sounds to me like they are working towards the same response....saying "we're getting damn close" on a car that isn't released yet.....maybe they will be there? The fact they are working on it shows to me they see its importance and will not let the new engines lose that. Sorry, I see what your saying, but this doesn't worry me one bit. People act as if the new turbo m motors will be the end of m bmw's, I just don't believe it.
        It's them admitting the motors don't have the same response as a turbo motor simply won't compared to an independent throttle body NA motor. It's just the nature of the motors a turbo motor will have lag. They can bump compression to try to minimize it but it will always be there. Just like how the 911 turbo will never match the GT3 no matter if they use VTG turbos or not.

        I don't think it will be the end of BMW's or a bad car. It just won't be the same.