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    • 2014 BMW F80 M3 expected to weigh 220 pounds less than the E90 M3 and have 450 horsepower?

      Interesting claim here regarding the curb weight of the next generation F80 M3. Now the horsepower is expected to be in the 450 range. CAR Magazine claimed the car would have 444 horses so ~450 seems to be the right range. This not as big of a jump as the E46 M3 to the E92 M3 or the new F10 M5 to the previous generation E60 M5 but BMW only made about a 60 horsepower jump with the new M5 model at the crank although the horsepower numbers at the wheels point to far more.

      I would expect the same with the new M3 that for the wheel horsepower gains on the F80 to exceed the crank horsepower difference presented by BMW between the F80 and the E90 M3's. This power increase combined with a claimed weight loss by 220 pounds would make for an M3 that performs very well.

      The thing is, 220 pounds is a lot to shave off the F30. And if the F80 M3 undercuts the E90 M3 by 220 pounds that means it would weigh somewhere in the 33XX pound range. Owners have weighed their E92/E90 M3's in the 35XX pound range. Confusion arises that the E9X is heavy because BMW lists its European weight which includes a 75kg driver.

      BMW claims the current F30 335i weighs 3555 pounds. So, about what an E92 M3 weighs. That would mean if the rumor for 100 kg weight loss were correct the F80 M3 would undercut the F30 335i and E92 M3 by 220 pounds. That means weight less than an E46 M3 as well, not happening. What is more likely is that BMW will undercut the 3704 pound curb weight they provide for the E92 M3 putting the F80 M3 somewhere in the 35XX pound range or just about the exact same as the E90/E92.

      We will find out soon enough with the car expected at the Los Angeles Auto Show in November.




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      This article was originally published in forum thread: 2014 BMW F80 M3 expected to weigh 220 pounds less than the E90 M3 and have 450 horsepower? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 91 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        True, but I seriously doubt the e9x m3 will depreciate any less bc it's the last NA car. We shall see!
        If will depreciate but being the last NA V8 is something special. The volume of the E9X hurts it more than anything else.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        but it also helps that it has the same motor as the R8 & was basically a V8 version of the Gallardo's V10 (
        Not true, the Gallardo V10 with FSI came later. The 4.2 FSI motor was just the same old 4.2 V8 reworked yet again. The original Gallardo motor was a 5.0 liter V10 with no direct injection that had nothign to do with the RS4 V8.

        Unlike the S65 and S85, the Audi V8 and the Gallardo V10 have no relation.
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's going to have a new turbo setup. I would think redesigned heads and block as well. If M hasn't completely lost their balls.
        Best meaning the fastest around the ring, every track and in a straight line to 60 and quarter mile. It won't be the most enjoyable but the best performer which makes sense given each generation is. I do think this will offer really solid performance though with the combination of 400-410 whp stock and 3600 pounds especially if they can keep the power curve pulling to 7200 rpms or beyond like the m5. If it has poop out at 5500 like every other turbo engine bmw uses than it will be a tremendous failure
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        Best meaning the fastest around the ring, every track and in a straight line to 60 and quarter mile. It won't be the most enjoyable but the best performer which makes sense given each generation is.
        So that's like saying the one after this will be even better. Of course every measurement will put it ahead. Does that make it more fun to drive though?
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        The audi 4.2 v8 is the oldest freakin engine ever. I was dumbfounded when they released the rs5 with the engine. THe r8 was bad enough. Talk about lazy. That engine has been around with minor tweaks through the years and consistently puts down less power than it states and has a $#@! of a carbon build up problem. On paper its a nice engine but frankly aside from sounding nice, it is a real mess and way too old
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        The audi 4.2 v8 is the oldest freakin engine ever. I was dumbfounded when they released the rs5 with the engine. THe r8 was bad enough. Talk about lazy. That engine has been around with minor tweaks through the years and consistently puts down less power than it states and has a $#@! of a carbon build up problem. On paper its a nice engine but frankly aside from sounding nice, it is a real mess and way too old
        That's pretty much how I feel about it as well. And the RS5 just takes this same thing and gives it slightly more hp. It's an overrated antique.
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        Sticky I think you are putting words in my mouth! I think I just chose the wrong word. I meant give the specs for an OEM m3 with 400 plus whp and 3600 pounds, provided it has a nice power curve as well will make for the "best" (i meant best performer). Maybe an obvious claim but nonetheless stock for stock I believe it will significantly outperform the e9x as much as the e9x outperformed the e46.

        Best as in most enjoyable-well I think there is never a replacement for a high revving v8. We are aural creatures and sound is so much of our overall experience. Atleast for me I am embarrased to say how many times I redline the car and downshift in high revs. I look like a turd but I don't care because I so enjoy it! I love blasting in 3rd on the freeway from 65 mph-80 and listening to the sound of the catless e9x m3 scream. But I think if they can make a turbo car with a redline of 7500 and a linear power curve it could potentially be a pretty fun car with nice low end punch but also a nice linear pull as well. It will be different but too early to say which is more fun
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        To me it's as if comparing a Porsche turbo to a GT3. I know which is the one I want to drive if I have a twisty road. I don't care what they PDK launch control does in the 1/4 mile at that point.
      1. Adrenacide's Avatar
        Adrenacide -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That's pretty much how I feel about it as well. And the RS5 just takes this same thing and gives it slightly more hp. It's an overrated antique.
        Yeah, I agree, going with the V8 was serious disappointment. Fast forward several years on and all of the big sport sedans are going to be FI. I wouldn't put my money down on a new M3 before seeing what the competition (Audi, Merc) has to offer.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Adrenacide Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, I agree, going with the V8 was serious disappointment. Fast forward several years on and all of the big sport sedans are going to be FI. I wouldn't put my money down on a new M3 before seeing what the competition (Audi, Merc) has to offer.
        Merc will have a twin turbo 4.0 liter V8.

        Audi will have a twin turbo 3.0 liter V6. Look to the Panamera S to see what Audi will be put in the next car. 420 hp tweaked to 450 probably right inline with BMW.

        Mercedes has the upper hand next round where raw power is concerned.
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Merc will have a twin turbo 4.0 liter V8.

        Audi will have a twin turbo 3.0 liter V6. Look to the Panamera S to see what Audi will be put in the next car. 420 hp tweaked to 450 probably right inline with BMW.

        Mercedes has the upper hand next round where raw power is concerned.
        Nothing new here.

        With how well the 3.0 TFSI SC V6 responds to mods, the TT 3.0 TFSI should be a monster. And the benz will have what I envision as an S65 without the high rpm and a sh!tload of torque. I hope bmw doesn't make the S55 too complex to be competitive in the aftermarket. with talk of 3 turbos/electric turbos I forsee a tuning nightmare. The DME is hard enough to deal with as it is.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        Nothing new here.
        Well, kind of. Mercedes will still have a V8 whereas Audi and BMW are going down in displacement and cylinder count. So, I think the disparity is greater than it has been.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        With how well the 3.0 TFSI SC V6 responds to mods, the TT 3.0 TFSI should be a monster.
        The reason the 3.0 TFSI SC responds to well is due to the bypass valve design. You hold it closed, you increase boost. The TT 3.0 TFSI should be damn good too, we'll see.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        And the benz will have what I envision as an S65 without the high rpm and a sh!tload of torque.
        Without the RPM it's no S65.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        I hope bmw doesn't make the S55 too complex to be competitive in the aftermarket. with talk of 3 turbos/electric turbos I forsee a tuning nightmare. The DME is hard enough to deal with as it is.
        BMW $#@!ing hates us. The F30 DME is apparently encrypted to an absurd level and COBB told me it's just absolutely insane. Seriously, $#@! BMW.
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well, kind of. Mercedes will still have a V8 whereas Audi and BMW are going down in displacement and cylinder count. So, I think the disparity is greater than it has been.
        True. Though when you look at the car as a whole, and not power levels, the design behind past AMG's has pretty much been "out power the competition" until the black series came along. Even then they had some substantial hp from the factory. When its all said and done and the cars line up, you're right; this time around I expect the Benz to walk away pretty easily.



        The reason the 3.0 TFSI SC responds to well is due to the bypass valve design. You hold it closed, you increase boost. The TT 3.0 TFSI should be damn good too, we'll see.
        I thought the aftermarket Harrop kit for the S65 was the first PD blower to implement this tech...maybe I misread that thread?



        Without the RPM it's no S65.
        true, it will never be like an S65 (especially with any type of FI). I bet it will rev pretty well for what it is though, more rev happy than the m157.



        BMW $#@!ing hates us. The F30 DME is apparently encrypted to an absurd level and COBB told me it's just absolutely insane. Seriously, $#@! BMW.
        At this point they are going to silly lengths to intentionally prevent aftermarket tuning. Its a lose lose for them. More development costs, cars are getting dumbed down, enthusiast who like to mod are turning away. You know there has to be SOME people inside BMW pulling their hair out over this new direction for the company. I guess none of that matters anymore because they sell lots of cars Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        True. Though when you look at the car as a whole, and not power levels, the design behind past AMG's has pretty much been "out power the competition" until the black series came along. Even then they had some substantial hp from the factory. When its all said and done and the cars line up, you're right; this time around I expect the Benz to walk away pretty easily.
        Yes, exactly. For the first time I think Mercedes will have a substantial straightline advantage. Despite what people think, which is mostly forum know-it-alls, the E46 M3 and C32 were pretty even with the edge to the E46 M3. In the aftermarket, no contest, M3 all day. E92 M3 and C63 pretty even with the edge to the C63 thanks for the P31 package. Aftermarket is about even this time as the C63's have Weistec now. Next gen... it's going to be somewhat lopsided.

        I wonder if the new M3 will even beat the C63 Black Series.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        I thought the aftermarket Harrop kit for the S65 was the first PD blower to implement this tech...maybe I misread that thread?
        I think there may be a difference in the valves or how they are controlled. Not sure exactly.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        rue, it will never be like an S65 (especially with any type of FI). I bet it will rev pretty well for what it is though, more rev happy than the m157.
        Probably exactly as rev happy as the m157. Only Benz motor I can think of to rev decently is the M156.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        At this point they are going to silly lengths to intentionally prevent aftermarket tuning. Its a lose lose for them.
        That's what I thought I don't understand them at all. It's just not enthusiast oriented any longer.
      1. Wannbm5's Avatar
        Wannbm5 -
        A lose lose? Are you joking. Do you know how many warranty repairs they probably have covered due to overstressed turbo engines since the 335 came out? They often do not prove it or question it but likely have spent billions in repairs secondary to tuning. Bottom line is it is costly under warranty to repair tuned cars gone wrong because they cannot go and prove and investigate every single repair or else that would cost billions. The only way to do it is to try make the ecu either secure or very easy to detect aftermarket tunes
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        A lose lose? Are you joking. Do you know how many warranty repairs they probably have covered due to overstressed turbo engines since the 335 came out? They often do not prove it or question it but likely have spent billions in repairs secondary to tuning. Bottom line is it is costly under warranty to repair tuned cars gone wrong because they cannot go and prove and investigate every single repair or else that would cost billions. The only way to do it is to try make the ecu either secure or very easy to detect aftermarket tunes
        Once again, bmw just cares about the bottom line and not the enthusiast like they used too. I do see what you're saying, did not think of that when I wrote the lose-lose comment. I still think its a poor move.
      1. Brey335i's Avatar
        Brey335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wannbm5 Click here to enlarge
        A lose lose? Are you joking. Do you know how many warranty repairs they probably have covered due to overstressed turbo engines since the 335 came out? They often do not prove it or question it but likely have spent billions in repairs secondary to tuning. Bottom line is it is costly under warranty to repair tuned cars gone wrong because they cannot go and prove and investigate every single repair or else that would cost billions. The only way to do it is to try make the ecu either secure or very easy to detect aftermarket tunes
        Not really. They have warranty repairs because their cars break on a weekly basis. I love BMW, but all of the warranty repairs I know of from myself or friends have been unrelated to modifications.
      1. StinkyM's Avatar
        StinkyM -
        Where were all of you during the e46 or e36 years? Where doing bolt ons got you a minimal gain. Now all of a sudden these hp are coming out the wood works.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
        Where were all of you during the e46 or e36 years? Where doing bolt ons got you a minimal gain. Now all of a sudden these hp are coming out the wood works.
        People just seem to want an HP platform now not a drivers car.