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    • The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production

      So you know that awesome BMW S85 V10 revving over 8000 rpm giving somewhat of a direct link to the Motorsport division that seemed equally at home in an Italian exotic as it did under the hood of a BMW sport sedan? Yep, that one with the individual throttle bodies, over 100 horses per liter, that won all those awards, and that you could not get anything like it in a 550i, 545i, 535i, 530i, 528, or 525i? You know, a real unique M motor made specifically for an M car and only available in an M car? Say goodbye to ever seeing that again.


      From now on, every M motor will simply be based on an engine already in production. That means whatever cylinder count and block is already available in a chassis is all you will ever get standard model or M model be damned. The M purist has been moaning about this for years that BMW M motors will essentially just become their standard counterparts with some different software but the head of BMW M (Friedrich Nitschke) finally officially confirmed the days of the unique M motor built from the ground up by the M division are quite simply, over:


      So the engines will be closer to the standard engines. We already see that in the N63/S63 motors a good example being the X5 50i and X5 M. For BMW this means huge cost savings and that certain internal parts do not even need to be changed. For example, the same pistons can be used for both an M and non-M motor now:


      This is obviously a cost saving measure. BMW can share blocks, internals, and change software yet charge a huge premium. They can even offer performance software as a quick cash grab without having to change any hardware. The cost for the consumer doesn't become more affordable (M models are actually getting more expensive) but the profit margin for BMW increases. You get less, both for your dollar and in hardware choices, yet they make more. Hey, BimmerBoost tried to warn you.

      So don't expect to see anything made by the M-Division like an S54 ever again. Or an S38. Or an S65. Or an S85. Or an S14. Those are not motors you can just slap different software on and simply call M engines. The M division is officially dead kids along with BMW's pride, get it through your heads.

      This information all comes from an intereview by Car and Driver with head of M Friedrich Nitschke. It's quite amusing to see him believe the garbage he is spewing to Car and Driver. Some great lines to read:




      The M5 and M6 are on a level with the competition weight wise? All wheel drive is too heavy? The competition has all wheel drive and weighs the same as BMW with rear wheel drive if not slightly less. A recent comparison of convertible GT's had the F12 BMW M6 come in last place because of poor driving dynamics and the heaviest curb weight by far with the car not offering much more than straightline acceleration.

      What the hell is Nitschke talking about?

      Game over kids, BMW M has buried their heads so far in the sand they can't smell their own BS.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 181 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Hello. Somebody home? I said it was costwise not doable. As in economically speaking. Because for a limited time and limited number of cars it made no sense at all do develop a new engine. Of course they did it to save money. That is one of the most important criteria for any car manufacturer to start a project. Otherwise the M GmbH would never have received the green light for this project. Where is the problem with this?
        The problem was you stated definitely it was costwise. They could have done all kinds of cost effective things and still used an "S" motor. The problem is there is no "S" motor under the hood. They could have even re-used the damn S54 and had a better "M" car. They could have used the S65 and had an EPIC car. Hell, maybe I would want one.

        They just stuck an N54 under the hood that was already there and called it an M. That's cheating, it's a cop out, it's BULL$#@!. BMW never did this with the E36.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        What do these M cars have to do with anything? Different time, different circumstances, so of course BMW's decision was different.
        They have to do with the entire point of having M motors not just crap with some different software. That's the point. If they could do it back then they can't do it now?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Doesn't change the fact that they did a great job with the 1M Coupé. For me it has everything that an M car needs, and much more so than other current M cars. What is your problem with it then? Just because it doesn't have a different engine from the 135i? Then I guess we have different priorities...
        Then you are in no position to evaluate an M car if you consider the only M car without an M motor a great M car. It's a joke. It's a freaking joke. It spelled the beginning of the end and some people eat that garbage up.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Again, what does this have to do with anything? No one was speaking about any race programs.
        What in the holy hell does M stand for?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        And BMW's race programs today don't have anything to do with the street cars they're selling anyway.
        Wow, just wow. Stop talking.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Sticky is on his "S"-engine crusade again Click here to enlarge

        These times are sadly gone now...

        I'm sure BMW conducted market research which showed that 90% of M-customers don't care one bit if there is a special ///M engine in the car or not. The overall experience of the car is what counts to most.

        Of course this will offend some enthusiasts for whom the engine is the central and most important part of the car. But emission regulations become stricter every year and they are easier to meet with forced induction engines. This certainly plays a big role in this whole change. Then car manufacturers get taxed based on fleet fuel consumption. Many factors which go against gas guzzling engines à la S65 or S85.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Sticky is on his "S"-engine crusade again
        BMW created the definition, not me. They lived up to it except... once.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        I'm sure BMW conducted market research which showed that 90% of M-customers don't care one bit if there is a special ///M engine in the car or not. The overall experience of the car is what counts to most.
        I'm sure most BMW M-customers don't give a flying $#@! about individual throttle bodies, 100 hp per liter, throttle response, high revving motors, or 50/50 weight balance. That's because that is what M is supposed to care about. That's M's philosophy.

        BMW should just stick an IOU an M motor sticker under the hood, put an electric motor in back, and have the stereo play "vroom vroom" sounds at the pace we are going.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Of course this will offend some enthusiasts for whom the engine is the central and most important part of the car. But emission regulations become stricter every year and they are easier to meet with forced induction engines.
        This is BS BMW has fed you and you bought it. Even freaking Chevy can do this in the Corvette and BMW can't? Porsche is doing it. Ferrari is doing it. Lambo is doing it. Audi is doing it. Mercedes is doing it. But oh BMW can't? It's not that they can't, it's they they don't want to because they just want $. It's done, no pride.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        This certainly plays a big role in this whole change. Then car manufacturers get taxed based on fleet fuel consumption. Many factors which go against gas guzzling engines à la S65 or S85.
        You act like the M5 is a prius.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The problem was you stated definitely it was costwise. They could have done all kinds of cost effective things and still used an "S" motor. The problem is there is no "S" motor under the hood. They could have even re-used the damn S54 and had a better "M" car. They could have used the S65 and had an EPIC car. Hell, maybe I would want one.
        Thank you for confirming that you don't have the faintest idea of how car manufacturers (let alone BMW) work today.

        Re-use an old engine for which no production line exists any more? And which is not compliant with today's emission standards and therefor could not be sold anywhere? Or put the M3 engine in it and try to sell it at more than 100.000 EUR just to break even with the production costs?

        Your arguments are really ridiculous.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They just stuck an N54 under the hood that was already there and called it an M. That's cheating, it's a cop out, it's BULL$#@!. BMW never did this with the E36.
        What's wrong with using a great engine? The N54 was initially engineered as a potential M3 engine anyway, in case you forgot that. And it works great in the 1M chassis (and with all the M3 suspension bits).

        And I repeat it in case you didn't understand it the first time round: The situation was radically different from the 80s when BMW developed the E36 M3. Why does it surprise you that they took a different approach?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They have to do with the entire point of having M motors not just crap with some different software. That's the point. If they could do it back then they can't do it now?
        Ok then you have a different expectation of an M car than myself. If it drives great - and the 1M does although apparently you've never driven one - then I don't care if they've modified a standard engine. Results count for me, for you apparently more the letter "S". More the pity for you, as you've fallen deeply into BMW's marketing pit.

        For me, the 1M is not crap. If you have a different view, so be it, but don't pretend everyone has to share it.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Then you are in no position to evaluate an M car if you consider the only M car without an M motor a great M car. It's a joke. It's a freaking joke. It spelled the beginning of the end and some people eat that garbage up.

        What in the holy hell does M stand for?

        Wow, just wow. Stop talking.
        Why should I? You don't either.

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Torqueless, old technology, and faint sounding. Not even worth a response.
        FWIW there's a thread on m3post about why people got out of the M3, and most complained about the lack of torque. So I guess all that awesome gearing multiplication, high rev blah blah doesn't work out as it should... And whenever I come across an M3 with stock exhaust, I can't even hear if the engine is on. Sorry buddy, just listen to a Maserati or Ferrari, that's how a V8 should sound. Or some american muscle will also do the job.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        FWIW there's a thread on m3post about why people got out of the M3, and most complained about the lack of torque. So I guess all that awesome gearing multiplication, high rev blah blah doesn't work out as it should...
        Unfortunately it doesn't. I have driven the M3 extensively and the main disappointment was the engine. A view which is shared by quite a few who've driven it. The suspension is really good, but the rest...

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. cstavaru's Avatar
        cstavaru -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The M5 and M6 are on a level with the competition weight wise? All wheel drive is too heavy? The competition has all wheel drive and weighs the same as BMW with rear wheel drive if not slightly less.

        What the hell is Nitschke talking about?
        And yet the F10 M5 is 1 second faster on the Nurburgring than the Panamera Turbo with AWD, 15 seconds faster than the E63 AMG Performance Package, is 10 second faster on the Nurburgring than the e92 M3, 18 seconds faster than the previous V10 M5, and only 5 second slower than the BMW M3 CSL and 7 second slower than the M3 GTS, which are both super-lightweight by design.

        The M division works with what they have from the production cars, but I would say they do a pretty good job with those heavy cars.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        I know you hate the 1M Sticky. But do you know why people bought it like hot cakes? Because it's great FUN to drive. Parts bin or not, the concept works.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Unfortunately it doesn't. I have driven the M3 extensively and the main disappointment was the engine. A view which is shared by quite a few who've driven it. The suspension is really good, but the rest...

        Alpina_B3_Lux
        But but, it has an S engine, it's got to be uber-awesome... Click here to enlarge
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
        And yet the F10 M5 is 1 second faster on the Nurburgring than the Panamera Turbo with AWD, 15 seconds faster than the E63 AMG Performance Package, is 10 second faster on the Nurburgring than the e92 M3, 18 seconds faster than the previous V10 M5, and only 5 second slower than the BMW M3 CSL and 7 second slower than the M3 GTS, which are both super-lightweight by design.

        The M division works with what they have from the production cars, but I would say they do a pretty good job with those heavy cars.
        Well after 2 laps on the Ring the brakes are probably toast... Those cars just don't last more than a couple laps on the track.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        But but, it has an S engine, it's got to be uber-awesome... Click here to enlarge
        Oh yes I forgot, that's true. The letter S makes it defy the laws of physics, right, got that.

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Thank you for confirming that you don't have the faintest idea of how car manufacturers (let alone BMW) work today.
        Oh, and you do for some reason? Considering how you miss BMW racing, miss BMW's own internal designations, and also miss that other companies are successfully doing today what BMW USED TO DO.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Re-use an old engine for which no production line exists any more? And which is not compliant with today's emission standards and therefor could not be sold anywhere? Or put the M3 engine in it and try to sell it at more than 100.000 EUR just to break even with the production costs?
        It was an example of an M motor that this car would be a much, much better drivers car with. The S65 is in production last I checked.

        WTF do you mean todays emissions standards? How many companies make NA motor that meet these standards? You are telling me Dodge can put out an 8.4 liter V10 with 640 horsepower that meets emissions standards but BMW simply can't do this with smaller motors any longer? Sounds to me like you enjoy making excuses for BMW. Ya, you CLEARLY know what you are talking about.

        They are saving money at your expensive, it's a cop out, get it through your head. They are laughing all the way to the bank. They are taking options away from us and lining their pockets. You're a sucker.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        What's wrong with using a great engine? The N54 was initially engineered as a potential M3 engine anyway, in case you forgot that. And it works great in the 1M chassis (and with all the M3 suspension bits).
        Because it isn't a great engine and it isn't an M motor. Why couldn't they have called it a 135is M-Sport instead? That way the M badge is not further diluted? They couldn't even call it an M1 doesn't that tell you something? On one hand they are honoring their history and on another they are spitting all over it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        The situation was radically different from the 80s when BMW developed the E36 M3. Why does it surprise you that they took a different approach?
        It surprises me you think the E36 M3 was developed in the 80's.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Ok then you have a different expectation of an M car than myself. If it drives great - and the 1M does although apparently you've never driven one - then I don't care if they've modified a standard engine. Results count for me, for you apparently more the letter "S". More the pity for you, as you've fallen deeply into BMW's marketing pit.

        For me, the 1M is not crap. If you have a different view, so be it, but don't pretend everyone has to share it.
        Oh so any BMW that drives nicely can have an M badge then. We might as well just stick on everything because the car drives great. It's a BMW, IT'S SUPPOSED TO DRIVE GREAT. M is another level, THE MOTORSPORTS DIVISION, not just the MONEY MAKER DIVISION.

        Feel free to not share my view but you making excuses for BMW sickens me as an M enthusiast and I think I have a much better understanding of M history and what an M should be than you do. Also more hands on experience.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Why should I? You don't either.
        You say racing doesn't matter yet what the hell does BMW M do? Yep, stop talking because the one who doesn't have the faintest idea here is you. M IS DEAD.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux Click here to enlarge
        Oh yes I forgot, that's true. The letter S makes it defy the laws of physics, right, got that.

        Alpina_B3_Lux
        What it means is that the BMW M division was involved in it. Selling an M car without an M motor is practically false advertising based on BMW's own precedent. It's absurd you don't have a problem with it. I most certainly do.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Oh, and you do for some reason? Considering how you miss BMW racing, miss BMW's own internal designations, and also miss that other companies are successfully doing today what BMW USED TO DO.
        Of course I do, that's obvious. One only has to read your replies to understand that you don't have any idea.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It was an example of an M motor that this car would be a much, much better drivers car with. The S65 is in production last I checked.
        Both examples were bad examples. The E46 M3 engine is long-since dead and would have to be re-engineered to a considerable extent to make it comply with today's emission standards. And implanting the V8 into the 1 series chassis is not feasible if you want to sell the 1M at a competitive price.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        WTF do you mean todays emissions standards? How many companies make NA motor that meet these standards? You are telling me Dodge can put out an 8.4 liter V10 with 640 horsepower that meets emissions standards but BMW simply can't do this with smaller motors any longer? Sounds to me like you enjoy making excuses for BMW. Ya, you CLEARLY know what you are talking about.
        Ok, I see you're a bit slow on the uptake so I explain it to you in rough outlines. It's not about the displacement or hp, but about developing an engine that complies with the relevant emission standards that are in effect today. In order to do so (unless you re-use an engine that is already compliant and duly tested), you'll have to jump through all kinds of hoops and testing cycles. Theoretically possible with an old engine, but again time consuming, not cost efficient and therefor unrealistic. That's why you can't just pop in the E46 M3 engine and call it a day.

        And ever heard of fleet fuel consumption? I see someone else mentioned that already, but your reading comprehension is a bit lacking today.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They are saving money at your expensive, it's a cop out, get it through your head. They are laughing all the way to the bank. They are taking options away from us and lining their pockets. You're a sucker.
        It appears you haven't really researched a lot about how the 1M project came to be. Of course it was done to make money, that's BMW's main purpose after all. But the price was very competitive, compared to other similar cars such as the Audi TTRS for example. And it was made by enthusiasts who thought that a small, high-powered and fun-to-drive car should be part of the portfolio again. Nothing wrong with that in my books.

        And how would that take away any options? There was no comparable option in the 1 series before. I don't quite understand the logic behind your reasoning, but that is probably because there is none.

        If I bought a 1M Coupé I wouldn't feel cheated at all, it's got great value for money actually.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Because it isn't a great engine and it isn't an M motor. Why couldn't they have called it a 135is M-Sport instead? That way the M badge is not further diluted? They couldn't even call it an M1 doesn't that tell you something? On one hand they are honoring their history and on another they are spitting all over it.
        Of course it's a great engine. Have you ever driven one? The way you talk I can't imagine you did, otherwise you wouldn't say all these strange things about a great driver's car as the 1M.

        For me the 1M is far more an honour to the M badge (even though I don't really care about that) than the bloated X5/X6 M or the notoriously overweight M5/M6 will ever be. So why not applauding them for bringing out something that is far more drivable and affordable at the same time?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It surprises me you think the E36 M3 was developed in the 80's.
        It surprises me that you think it isn't. The E36 came out in 1990, the M3 in 1992. When else would they have developed it if not in the 80s?

        You seem to have a very limited understanding of how car manufacturers develop cars. As quite apparently you don't know it, but the development of a new model / platform takes between 5-8 years (today less so than 20 years ago).

        You should read a bit more, it's good for your knowledge, you know.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Oh so any BMW that drives nicely can have an M badge then. We might as well just stick on everything because the car drives great. It's a BMW, IT'S SUPPOSED TO DRIVE GREAT. M is another level, THE MOTORSPORTS DIVISION, not just the MONEY MAKER DIVISION.
        What's wrong with making money? BMW is not Mother Theresa or a charity club, you know.

        Just to clarify this for you, as you seem to have a hard time understanding it: For me an M car is in the first place about a car that drives exceptionally well, much more so than its standard cousins. The engine is one component of this package, but not the only one. Which is why the 1M is indeed a true M car for me, even if its engine may not have been entirely developed by the M division.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Feel free to not share my view but you making excuses for BMW sickens me as an M enthusiast and I think I have a much better understanding of M history and what an M should be than you do. Also more hands on experience.
        I'm not making excuses at all. I'm offering an explanation for your benefit, as you seem to be in need of some educating.

        As for you better understanding or more hands on experience, who knows (and I don't really care). All I know is that you don't know me at all, so your statements are mere speculation and are of no relevance whatsoever.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You say racing doesn't matter yet what the hell does BMW M do? Yep, stop talking because the one who doesn't have the faintest idea here is you. M IS DEAD.
        Again, please improve your reading comprehension a bit. Didn't they teach you that at school?

        I said: BMW racing cars do not have anything to do with their M street cars. That is a fact, if you had ever cared to look at one of these cars, be it the DTM car or the GT3 cars or whatever. Everything about them is different, there is no component at all that is ever used in a street car.

        Of course I can imagine (and I do hope so) that their racing experience will make them understand and develop their M street cars better. But that doesn't mean the M street cars are any good at racing without substantial modifications. The only car manufacturer who can pull that off is Porsche with the GT3. Unfortunately, BMW hasn't had anything to even come close to rival that car since the untimely demise of the M1 decades ago. But that's another discussion...

        The M for Motorsport has been nothing else than a marketing thing for a long, long time now. It's just another division of BMW as Quattro is for Audi and AMG for Mercedes. They build faster and sportier cars, based on the everyday versions of the same chassis. Racing has nothing to do with it, except for marketing purposes.

        And in that scenario, the 1M is indeed the closest car to the "Motorsport" term that has existed since the E46 M3 CSL, as I start to see a whole amateur racing community that uses that car to have fun on racetracks. And more power to them!

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Of course BMW race cars have to do with their M/Motorsport cars! That's the whole point. Manufacturers (including BMW or M GmbH) share engineering and technology between their race and street groups. Of course many parts are not shared, that would be insane.

        Look into the M3 GTR and ALMS; read into why they did what they did, and the rules around it... It's been talked about many times on this forum.

        You DO understand that one of the main points of F1 (as an aside) is to trickle technology back into manufacturer street cars for the better (e.g efficiency, or power, or regenerative braking technology)... Much of the reason a group/manufacturer even joins a series is for development/betterment of their street cars. This would be applied to their best cars first (in this case M series and S motors) - then trickle down over time to "street" cars. Yes, it would be absurd to take the actual pre-production unit part-for-part and throw it in a stock car, but that doesn't mean it's not used.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Of course BMW race cars have to do with their M/Motorsport cars! That's the whole point. Manufacturers (including BMW or M GmbH) share engineering and technology between their race and street groups. Of course many parts are not shared, that would be insane.

        Look into the M3 GTR and ALMS; read into why they did what they did, and the rules around it... It's been talked about many times on this forum.

        You DO understand that one of the main points of F1 (as an aside) is to trickle technology back into manufacturer street cars for the better (e.g efficiency, or power, or regenerative braking technology)... Much of the reason a group/manufacturer even joins a series is for development/betterment of their street cars. This would be applied to their best cars first (in this case M series and S motors) - then trickle down over time to "street" cars. Yes, it would be absurd to take the actual pre-production unit part-for-part and throw it in a stock car, but that doesn't mean it's not used.
        BMW's main focus in Motorsport are now the M3 DTM and the ALMS with the Z4 GTE.

        Both of these cars have NOTHING in common with their street counterparts.

        M used to be related to Motorsport years ago. Now it's just Marketing. Technology transfer in modern racing series is marginal, if at all existant, even if the HQ always advance that argument to justify the Motorsport budgets.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        BMW's main focus in Motorsport are now the M3 DTM and the ALMS with the Z4 GTE.

        Both of these cars have NOTHING in common with their street counterparts.

        M used to be related to Motorsport years ago. Now it's just Marketing. Technology transfer in modern racing series is marginal, if at all existant, even if the HQ always advance that argument to justify the Motorsport budgets.

        What in the heck are you talking about? They have nothing in common, egh? Interesting. Let's start with the chassis - you know, the one that comes off the same $#@!ing production line as the Z4. Or how about the engine? Of course it's not the same exact one as you get in an M3 or M3 GTS, but MANY of the design features and engineering ARE SHARED between the two. Of course you aren't going to get the same engine as what is in their GT3 car, that would be ridiculous.

        That's the point - Motorsport drives what we get in street cars, and vice versa. Now they are throwing more boost on an N54 and calling it a day - it's garbage. I want a bespoke engine, not some nonsense that goes in an X1, X3, X5, 135, 335, 335is, 535i, 7 series - etc...
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        What in the heck are you talking about? They have nothing in common, egh?
        No, they don't.

        Or do you know of a Z4 with fixed roof, carbon fiber body, a V8 engine and six speed sequential gearbox?

        But maybe all of that does not count for you because it vaguely looks like a Z4.

        Oh, well...

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. TRES's Avatar
        TRES -
        ///M is for marketing and financing race cars just look at all the special edition m3's that arent special at all.
      1. crazylegs's Avatar
        crazylegs -
        the only responce this whole topic needs is:

        WTF IS BMW THINKING! Why destroy what made them who they are today. DUMBEST IDEA EVER, I think alot of enthusiest will switch from BMW to AMG or something else now. Why pay more when you know its not really more?

        at least AMG still is going to mean somsomething