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    • The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production

      So you know that awesome BMW S85 V10 revving over 8000 rpm giving somewhat of a direct link to the Motorsport division that seemed equally at home in an Italian exotic as it did under the hood of a BMW sport sedan? Yep, that one with the individual throttle bodies, over 100 horses per liter, that won all those awards, and that you could not get anything like it in a 550i, 545i, 535i, 530i, 528, or 525i? You know, a real unique M motor made specifically for an M car and only available in an M car? Say goodbye to ever seeing that again.


      From now on, every M motor will simply be based on an engine already in production. That means whatever cylinder count and block is already available in a chassis is all you will ever get standard model or M model be damned. The M purist has been moaning about this for years that BMW M motors will essentially just become their standard counterparts with some different software but the head of BMW M (Friedrich Nitschke) finally officially confirmed the days of the unique M motor built from the ground up by the M division are quite simply, over:


      So the engines will be closer to the standard engines. We already see that in the N63/S63 motors a good example being the X5 50i and X5 M. For BMW this means huge cost savings and that certain internal parts do not even need to be changed. For example, the same pistons can be used for both an M and non-M motor now:


      This is obviously a cost saving measure. BMW can share blocks, internals, and change software yet charge a huge premium. They can even offer performance software as a quick cash grab without having to change any hardware. The cost for the consumer doesn't become more affordable (M models are actually getting more expensive) but the profit margin for BMW increases. You get less, both for your dollar and in hardware choices, yet they make more. Hey, BimmerBoost tried to warn you.

      So don't expect to see anything made by the M-Division like an S54 ever again. Or an S38. Or an S65. Or an S85. Or an S14. Those are not motors you can just slap different software on and simply call M engines. The M division is officially dead kids along with BMW's pride, get it through your heads.

      This information all comes from an intereview by Car and Driver with head of M Friedrich Nitschke. It's quite amusing to see him believe the garbage he is spewing to Car and Driver. Some great lines to read:




      The M5 and M6 are on a level with the competition weight wise? All wheel drive is too heavy? The competition has all wheel drive and weighs the same as BMW with rear wheel drive if not slightly less. A recent comparison of convertible GT's had the F12 BMW M6 come in last place because of poor driving dynamics and the heaviest curb weight by far with the car not offering much more than straightline acceleration.

      What the hell is Nitschke talking about?

      Game over kids, BMW M has buried their heads so far in the sand they can't smell their own BS.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: The "M" motor is officially dead, no more unique/ground up M engines - BMW confirms all future M (S series) motors to be based on motors already in production started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 181 Comments
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by danniexi Click here to enlarge
        Agreed.

        Dare I say it (and I'll probably get flamed for this), but in my perspective, the ///M cars are NOT about engines. It's all about the chassis + suspension. The 1M success proves this.
        Except with the newer M cars, they are not living up to that heritage.

        Just watched Motorweek lay into the M6's handling and steering. Such strong statements from them is rare.
      1. Triple M's Avatar
        Triple M -
        Definitely don't mind turbo engines. Heck, who doesn't like a motor on a little steroid (cheap power will never go away). The issue we are concerned about is the damn premium being charged for these turbo cars. I have to say our 135 & X5M have both given us more issues (injectors, fuel pumps etc that becomes more expensive after warranty is gone) than the our E92 M3 that gets beaten up on the track under a 115 degree summer weather. Love the fact that BMW came with initial N54 without oil coolers. If cost is the reason why BMW is doing this, then I hope they are not going to butcher us with nasty premiums. Need my NA high revving lightweight block monsters back!!!!
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        So the next M3/M4 is getting electric steering. At least the articles puts off that vibe.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Triple M Click here to enlarge
        Definitely don't mind turbo engines. Heck, who doesn't like a motor on a little steroid (cheap power will never go away). The issue we are concerned about is the damn premium being charged for these turbo cars. I have to say our 135 & X5M have both given us more issues (injectors, fuel pumps etc that becomes more expensive after warranty is gone) than the our E92 M3 that gets beaten up on the track under a 115 degree summer weather. Love the fact that BMW came with initial N54 without oil coolers. If cost is the reason why BMW is doing this, then I hope they are not going to butcher us with nasty premiums. Need my NA high revving lightweight block monsters back!!!!
        I think the M4 msrp is going to shock some people.
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Right, but that's not what the S motors have been about... The throttle response of the N5X engines alone is reason enough for them to be excluded as a true race-bred motor. No ITBs, no high redline, etc.

        If the only reason to buy an M is power, there are MUCH better options out there.
        I know that's what the s motors are all about. Maybe BMW will develop a focused track car with a NA motor and charge a premium price? Who knows.... Maybe ///m will learn the hard way that this direction is a mistake, I guess we'll see.
      1. Puerto Rican 335d's Avatar
        Puerto Rican 335d -
        wow there goes the neighborhood!!!!
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        I know that's what the s motors are all about. Maybe BMW will develop a focused track car with a NA motor and charge a premium price? Who knows.... Maybe ///m will learn the hard way that this direction is a mistake, I guess we'll see.
        As long as the company makes big $$$, I don't think the share holders care much, sadly Click here to enlarge

        Current BMW generations have most of all moved away from the classic BMW strong points: superior handling, legendary pleasure to drive, direct and sporty feel, award-winning engines. What are we left with? Bloated, overweight, overprized, muffled and dull feeling cruisers.
      1. 7to3_enthusiast's Avatar
        7to3_enthusiast -
        This will probably be a global trend. A trend that will make me appreciate my old pure sports cars more and more every year.

        But keep in mind, with this statement they will have to produce a baseline motor that will be capable of putting an M badge on it (for whatever that's worth now). This means that all the other series should be stronger now that they're just a few bolts ons away from M territory.
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        More an M than a 1M ever will be.
        I think the 1M is really a bad example in this context, as at least for me it really successfully brought the "M" genes into the 1 series segment. Granted, it didn't have its own engine, but in the 1 series class I can understand that this is cost-wise not doable, and certainly not in the limited timespan they had at their disposal.

        What counts is the result of the overall package, in the end.

        And there the 1M is really a great combination. It's loads of fun to drive, has a strong straight six turbo engine with loads of torque, the chassis from the M3 with the limited slip differential, comparatively low weight and excellent handling capabilities - at an affordable price. What more can you ask for?

        To me that is much more a true "M" car in spirit as any of the X5/X6M or even the horribly overweight M5/M6 will ever be.

        I was at the Nürburgring yesterday and there was a plethora of 1M present. It looks a bit like this is the car that will replace the E46 M3 in the next few years as an affordable small street racer.

        I do agree though that with the more high-end cars like M3, M5 or M6 specific engines should be developed to distinguish the cars more from the normal 3/5/6 series. And in particular make an effort in weight savings, as the current F models are embarrassingly overweight (the 5/6 more so than the 3, but still).

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. deemo319's Avatar
        deemo319 -
        [QUOTtobahn335i;452203]Well I though they would take a turn again in the right direction. With Nitschke's statement in mind it's clear to me that the next M3/M4 engine will simply be a factory tuned N54 with a few minor changes maybe. Not a bad thing per se but certainly not what you would expect in the most important M car (from a sales numbers point of view at least).[/QUOTE]

        The upcoming M3/M4 engine is officially designated as S55, not the N54.
      1. DFM's Avatar
        DFM -
        Under the hood of the new M3, the S55 engine. looks like there is no space whatsoever Click here to enlarge
        Attachment 30303
      1. Alpina_B3_Lux's Avatar
        Alpina_B3_Lux -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by deemo319 Click here to enlarge
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        Well I though they would take a turn again in the right direction. With Nitschke's statement in mind it's clear to me that the next M3/M4 engine will simply be a factory tuned N54 with a few minor changes maybe. Not a bad thing per se but certainly not what you would expect in the most important M car (from a sales numbers point of view at least).
        The upcoming M3/M4 engine is officially designated as S55, not the N54.
        Yes, I think we know that.

        What he meant was that the new S55 will be very similar in its setup to the N54 engine (two turbos, 3l displacement), but engineered with some new gadgets like valvetronic.

        Which in turn is very similar to the new Alpina B3 Biturbo, which has a different engine block again (they couldn't use the N55 as you can't fit two oil/water cooled turbochargers to that block, unfortunately).

        If the new M3/M4 really only has just over 400hp at the crank, it will be difficult for it not to come last in any comparisons though (as Audi and AMG will be so far ahead power wise that even a slightly better suspension setup will not help much). And engine-wise it will be hard to differentiate it from the new Alpina B3 BT...

        Alpina_B3_Lux
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        So the next M3/M4 is getting electric steering. At least the articles puts off that vibe.
        That is why I bought an Audi after the test drive.

        I guess AMG is going to have a feild day in sales.

        Sorry BMW, I had you'r E46 in a roadster and 3, but this decision is piss and poor at bestClick here to enlarge
      1. GuidoK's Avatar
        GuidoK -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DFM Click here to enlarge
        Under the hood of the new M3, the S55 engine.
        Whats that? an air2water2air cooling system?
        And twin air filter intake boxes?

        Interesting, that might be an engine with a lot of headroom for tuning Click here to enlarge, and maybe very little turbo lag. It looks that the air flow pipes go over the enigne to minimize the air volume to be pressurized, resulting in less lag.

        I'd love to see an exploded view of that setup Click here to enlarge
      1. m54b25's Avatar
        m54b25 -
        Well, in a matter of years & when your car warranty expires... There will be plenty of carbon build up issues/misfires, component plastic issues since car are build to be cheaper & recycleable, electronic nightmares, etc. It's just a matter of residual for the manufacture & sell you the next new model.

        It used to be, you buy a luxury car & expect it to last at least 10 years of trouble free issues. Now, I don't even know why they even call them luxury or sports car. Since, they are built to last less than 5 years & still have plenty of issues when new.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
        Well, in a matter of years & when your car warranty expires... There will be plenty of carbon build up issues/misfires, component plastic issues since car are build to be cheaper & recycleable, electronic nightmares, etc. It's just a matter of residual for the manufacture & sell you the next new model.

        It used to be, you buy a luxury car & expect it to last at least 10 years of trouble free issues. Now, I don't even know why they even call them luxury or sports car. Since, they are built to last less than 5 years & still have plenty of issues when new.
        Yeah, that's the thing that bothers me most. First off, my M3 has had 0 (zero) problems. It has over 50k miles on it - and every single mile most people would consider abuse. I drive the car very hard, as that's what it's for. On the other hand, the 335i is a very respectable car with a respectable engine - HOWEVER - it WASN'T MADE to handle what the S65/S54 engines could as far as abuse - because that's not it's purpose. So, we have people complain of walnut blasting, turbos failing, fuel pump failures, limp modes, cooling issues, etc... I will NOT buy a turbocharged M3 - especially after all of this has happened with the N54/N55. It's a good engine, but it's not engineered as a racebred motor. It's just not.

        So, we have the S55 - which is probably a tuned N54/55. I am more than certain they are going to address most of the issues above - however, taking an engine - and adding boost/cooling is not what an M3 is about. It used to be about having a special engine that is nearly indestructible. Drive it hard, and it rewards you - not get upset and go into limp mode because the oil temperature is too hot (or whatever).

        I am sure the car will handle great, it will be very quick (even quicker than my M3), etc... - but is it worth the 70k when all I am getting is a tuned version of an engine they use in nearly all model lines? No. It's not. This is basically (speculating here) an Alpina B3 - it's DONE already BMW! Or a bigger 1M - again, it's done! Give us something awesome - like a direct injected S54B34tu; you get the efficiency and the power (stroke it a bit to 3.4 liters). When I have the choice to spend my money on a car like this, I want something special - something that is rewarding, and most importantly something that doesn't cause issue after issue - and takes up a ton of my time.

        I understand I won't shut up about this - and it's probably annoying to some. I really am hoping that BMW navigates to this forum, and sees this (along with all the other thread of complaining in regard to this decision). This is literally an utter failure on their part. AMG is going to OWN this marketplace now, and I can see people who won't go with AMG going with Porsche if they have the money. Audi isn't really an option - although the RS5 is nice (not in the same category however). Point is, they are letting other manufacturers walk all over them - and for what? To make things cheaper for them to maintain/repair/engineer/etc. - but still charge us the same $? No thanks.

        No matter WHAT they do (in regard to the comment about lag and the intake/intercooler setup) - there will always be lag on a turbocharged car. It's inevitable. It has gotten much better than the old Turbo P cars of the late 80s/early 90s, but still - even comparing a 335i to say a G37/370z - there is a HUGE difference in response... It will never go away completely - it's physics. Unless there is some way to breathe through the turbo at all times and keep the thing spooled up at all times, there will be lag. An M car should have no lag, it should be a sharp instrument. You should be able to drive the car on it's absolute limit (cornering) - using the throttle to stay right on the verge of oversteer - this is not easy when the throttle doesn't respond appropriately to input. Yes, you will make up for this with sheer power, no doubt - but that's no fun in my book.

        Cheers.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        only the E36 M3 in the states had a severely crippled engine

        E36's in the rest of the world are amazing!
        Severely "crippled" is a bit of an exaggeration and it was still an M motor with physical changes that the M division had a hand in unlike the N54.

        And because it had a different design as already stated it allows for a lot of interesting modification options.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
        factory tuned (though more modified than this article indicated i believe) with two turbos last time i read? so a FAIR bit different to the base model N55?
        Turbo count changes the motor in your mind?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        And in regard to the m135i and the 1M - we already have it. Why make a 3 series with the exact same $#@!?
        Exactly, f'ing boring. Main different will be power and of course the suspension, brakes. Not the power delivery, a race car derived motor, etc.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
        I think the M4 msrp is going to shock some people.
        The M5/M6 shocked me... just not in the right way.