Close

    • What happens when an ESS-Tuning VT3-700 supercharged built S65 motor DCT E92 M3 runs into a stock internal M156 Weistec Stage III supercharged C63? It loses

      This was a race many of you were waiting to see, a "built" motor supercharged DCT M3 versus a Stage III supercharged C63 AMG. The C63 AMG is the new W204 Black Series whose M156 V8 features stronger forged internals than the standard M156 in regular C63 AMG's that do not have the optional P31 performance package. At about 11 psi of boost on a 91 octane tune for the AMG power is in the upper 600 wheel horsepower range and would be higher with a race gas tune.


      The E92 M3 features an ESS Tuning VT3 built motor setup with power in the mid 600 wheel range on race gas. Unfortunately, this is a very weak example of a built motor M3 due to the block not being sleeved. It is simply a stock block with a dropped compression ratio for longevity purposes which prevents "accidents" from happening on the stock internals. It really does not offer much of a power benefit over a stock internal car as the compression ratio drop means more air needs to be compressed to make up for the lost power per psi of boost.

      It uses the exact same Vortech blower as the standard ESS kits which is undersized for a true built motor setup. A properly built low compression M3 with a properly sized blower should not lose to a stock internal M156 on a 91 octane and should not be in the 6XX wheel horsepower range. Regardless, what happened is what happened and the Weistec Stage III setups continue to impress as this C63 beats "the best" ESS has to offer and has been seen simply walking away from some very quick cars. Much respect to Wesitec on their build and checking egos, video below.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS S3 E92 M3 vs Weistec S3 C63 BS started by SleepersOwn View original post
      Comments 85 Comments
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Well am I running the E85 (460) tune or the 93 (420) octane tune?? Cause I can switch before we go for some pulls tonight
        Run whatever tune you think is faster. I will be on pump 93 octance full weight. Just like I was when I ran at the track.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        if only my V was done Click here to enlarge .....3 more days......3 more days.....
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        if only my V was done Click here to enlarge .....3 more days......3 more days.....
        Thats like me wishin I can get in on 2 prius' racing....lol
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        if only my V was done Click here to enlarge .....3 more days......3 more days.....
        That would just end with you smiling ear to ear & everyone else leaving with bruised egos
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Thats like me wishin I can get in on 2 prius' racing....lol

        lol...im still in breakin mode...id only be at prob 600whp at 4500rpm....but FULL torque at 2500rpm Click here to enlarge so im still beatable since i cant shift past 4500
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        That would just end with you smiling ear to ear & everyone else leaving with bruised egos

        not just yet....ill be doing that after may 6th when i get all my tunes Click here to enlarge
      1. Blitz535i's Avatar
        Blitz535i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Nice, I should get rapped by a 460whp 335i being that I made 420-430 at best.
        I had a thought that you were going to add some boost to your 'stang...am I thinking of someone else or was that you?? Wondering if you're still moving in that direction with your Mustang.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The black series premium is a factor due to the stronger engine internals.
        You can get a regular C63 with the same internals. Doesn't have to be a black series. And IIRC Jim was running the bigger blower on his CLK which doesn't have the stronger internals before he built the motor and it held up fine. I remember him saying that when they tore the engine down the internals looked almost brand new.
      1. ZooyorQ's Avatar
        ZooyorQ -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Run whatever tune you think is faster. I will be on pump 93 octance full weight. Just like I was when I ran at the track.
        Can I come! I'm going to put my bimmer in the sport mode.. it rips on sport mode! Click here to enlarge
      1. leo985i's Avatar
        leo985i -
        Man, why do all the races happen on the East Coast of Mexico? Nothing ever on the very southwest part of Mexico.
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blitz535i Click here to enlarge
        I had a thought that you were going to add some boost to your 'stang...am I thinking of someone else or was that you?? Wondering if you're still moving in that direction with your Mustang.
        It's coming. But for now the car traps 120 with basic mods and runs mid 11s
      1. Blitz535i's Avatar
        Blitz535i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        It's coming. But for now the car traps 120 with basic mods and runs mid 11s
        That's really moving for basic bolt ons (no doubt mostly due to the DCT in your 'stang). I don't think I've seen you on any of the Mustang/SVT boards that I frequent; hope you post an update over here once you get SC'd.
      1. Laloosh's Avatar
        Laloosh -
        Lol dct?
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
        Lol dct?
        $#@!! thats how you kept up with me Click here to enlarge
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blitz535i Click here to enlarge
        That's really moving for basic bolt ons (no doubt mostly due to the DCT in your 'stang).
        Don't remember seeing that in the Mustang brochure?? Click here to enlarge
      1. Blitz535i's Avatar
        Blitz535i -
        It was a joke guys...surely we haven't forgotten about the lively DCT transmission discussions already have we? I hope my sarcasm wasn't lost on anyone.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        You can get a regular C63 with the same internals. Doesn't have to be a black series. And IIRC Jim was running the bigger blower on his CLK which doesn't have the stronger internals before he built the motor and it held up fine. I remember him saying that when they tore the engine down the internals looked almost brand new.
        The P31 option is mentioned but it is important to note the internals with the Black Series are standard, that's huge.
      1. Weistec's Avatar
        Weistec -
        P31 internals or not, you can make the advertised power. There is a recent post in the M156/M159 section with a Weistec Stage 3 SL63 making 670+ at the wheels. That's no forged internals.

        Weistec Engineering
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Weistec Click here to enlarge
        P31 internals or not, you can make the advertised power. There is a recent post in the M156/M159 section with a Weistec Stage 3 SL63 making 670+ at the wheels. That's no forged internals.

        Weistec Engineering
        Absolutely the Stage III setup will make the advertised power on either internals. Just want to point out the different stronger internals are a big factor especially with longevity or if one would consider turning the boost up further with race gas. One would likely rather do that on a Black Series or P31 car.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Absolutely the Stage III setup will make the advertised power on either internals. Just want to point out the different stronger internals are a big factor especially with longevity or if one would consider turning the boost up further with race gas. One would likely rather do that on a Black Series or P31 car.
        I don't think the forged internals are anything more than marketing. I haven't seen any non P31 M156's have the rotating assembly let go and there are lots out there with high mileage - so longevity is a non issue. Under mild boost it might be a different story, and I'd agree running big boost you'd be better off with a forged bottom end. I drove a P31 C63 and it didn't even rev any faster than a non P31. So for the average buyer who will never run a supercharger, I don't see the advantage at all.