• Watch a Dinan 4.6 liter stroker S65 V8 E92 M3 get smacked around by a cammed C5 Z06

      To get a lot more power of the E92 M3 in NA form beyond bolt ons increasing the displacement is really the way to go. An extra 600cc's is a nice chunk to pick up made possible by the relatively short stroke in stock form providing quite a bit of room to grow. However, the LS6 V8 under the hood of the C5 Z06 is sill larger at 5.7 liters. With an aggressive cam only the Z06 can put out in the 420 wheel range and with exhaust and intake 450 wheel is within reason.


      The S65 V8 at 4.6 liters is capable of 441 wheel horsepower. So, on paper, this actually makes for a fairly good race especially with a DCT M3. Yes, the C5 Z06 has a weight advantage but the M3's higher redline makes for a gearing advantage. So what is the problem? The 20 inch Hartge wheels the owner chose to put on his car which are basically boat anchors sapping power. The Hartge badge on the trunk clearly not making it up for it.

      Furthermore, the 441 wheel number for a stroker M3 came from an RDsport setup, not Dinan. Dinan uses a fairly mild tune and has yet to demonstrate as high of dyno numbers with their motor. To really take advantage of this setup the M3 owner needs to ditch the wheels, get a new tune, and also look into Schrick cams as the stroker moves the peak of the powerband to the left. Much more horsepower is there to be had by moving the torque curve to the right towards redline with a more aggressive profile similar to how this Z06 gains power with its cam setup.

      Enjoy the race, but seems silly for the M3 owner to spend all that money on the motor only to limit it in other areas.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Dinan 4.6 Stroker M3 vs C5 Z06 started by Sledgehammer View original post
      Comments 226 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        you really think the results wouldn't change if the car had 50-75 more horses and 100 lbs weight reduction? I am not saying this M didn't lose or that it can't, but watch both cars again - they are very close up until the end. I don't know, i think that would change the results is all I am saying.
        Of course it would change the results. Those are big changes, not minor.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        you really think the results wouldn't change if the car had 50-75 more horses and 100 lbs weight reduction? I am not saying this M didn't lose or that it can't, but watch both cars again - they are very close up until the end. I don't know, i think that would change the results is all I am saying.
        I believe if you swap wheels and throw 50whp to the M it still takes an L. But it certainly closes down the gap to around a car or so
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Itsbrokeagain Click here to enlarge
        Here you are pushing lightweight 19s when no racecar runs thats big...mandated size is 18".

        So how about some 18" TE37s? Still not gonna win even at 18lbs a wheel.


        someone put up some videos of M3s ripping other cars on a roadcourse. Sure it handles nice but I always see Porsches up in the lead. Sticky you can debate all day long that the M3 isnt designed for stoplight racing but face it, 90% of us do just that. We get our jollies off on the street, roadracing just isnt what some people like.
        Ok go 18 inch, even better. 18 pounds a wheel versus 35.6 pounds in back. That's almost 18 pounds per rim... that's huge. Look at HPF's results with different wheels, 60 whp, obviously larger due to the higher power level but point stands: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ls-on-the-dyno


        Secondly, ok, you want to do pulls with your M3? That is your goal? Then why in the world are you getting a stroker and not a blower? I never had trouble with C5 Z06's or C6's with my M3 without the damn blower. With it, no contest. Only C6 I ever lost to was a C6 Z06 when naturally aspirated. With the blower, I would have won. So what's the problem? If you want to be fast, you can be fast.

        Equating this M3 losing to somehow all M3's losing or M3's not being fast based on a single video is idiotic. The car runs 11's with bolt on's, the stroker should be doing mid to low 11's. I can't do anything about this guy not prepping his car well for acceleration comparisons.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        I believe if you swap wheels and throw 50whp to the M it still takes an L.
        LOL, really?
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Ok go 18 inch, even better. 18 pounds a wheel versus 35.6 pounds in back. That's almost 18 pounds per rim... that's huge. Look at HPF's results with different wheels, 60 whp, obviously larger due to the higher power level but point stands: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ls-on-the-dyno


        Secondly, ok, you want to do pulls with your M3? That is your goal? Then why in the world are you getting a stroker and not a blower? I never had trouble with C5 Z06's or C6's with my M3 without the damn blower. With it, no contest. Only C6 I ever lost to was a C6 Z06 when naturally aspirated. With the blower, I would have won. So what's the problem? If you want to be fast, you can be fast.

        Equating this M3 losing to somehow all M3's losing or M3's not being fast based on a single video is idiotic. The car runs 11's with bolt on's, the stroker should be doing mid to low 11's. I can't do anything about this guy not prepping his car well for acceleration comparisons.

        Exactly... It's a bigger difference than people realize. This is why car companies are always touting features like carbon driveshafts (a la 350/370z). They didn't put a carbon driveshaft on the car for fun. There is a reason - and that reason it 20 lbs of rotating mass reduction.

        You also have to take into consideration (HPF vide) that although the 60 whp might be inflated due to the power levels - you ALSO have to think about the fact that there are TWO HEAVIER wheels that are sitting motionless during the test. In other words, the dyno is only measuring the change from the difference in weight from ONLY the TWO back wheels (fronts don't move).

        So, 60 hp is not out of the question, I would say it's even more when out on the road. Again, it's over 400 lbs. effective weight - that's a TON.

        That video is a good indicator of the changes btw - he weighs them both at the end (stock 19 and the "drag" 19"), almost the same weight difference as what we are talking about here.

        Again, that's only taking the rear two tires into effect.

        Add 50 horses, plus this dramatic weight change? No doubt in my mind what the result would be. I would love for someone to buy that M3, and do it right. Click here to enlarge
      1. oldgixxer's Avatar
        oldgixxer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        A car that isn't setup for max acceleration performance isn't setup for max acceleration performance. That isn't an excuse, it's a fact.

        Hartge wheel weight:



        Hence why BMW guys refer to them as boat anchors. Lightweight 19's, an aggressive tune, and you have a new ballgame. This owner is not a bright a bulb.
        I know for fact unsprung weight(like heavy wheels)plays a HUGE roll in accelerating but all joking aside: do you think thatd be enough to change the outcome of that race??
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
        I know for fact unsprung weight(like heavy wheels)plays a HUGE roll in accelerating but all joking aside: do you think thatd be enough to change the outcome of that race??
        Tune and wheels, ya. To make victory certain schrick cams.
      1. oldgixxer's Avatar
        oldgixxer -
        How much do a set of those cams run?
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Does anyone have the exact numbers & specs of the VAC stroker? Since that uses the Schrick cams & (most likely) a more aggressive tuning then the Dinan stroker motor.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        like i said, find me a similar vette and ill proved the additional 40-50hp and lighter M3 Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
        Does anyone have the exact numbers & specs of the VAC stroker? Since that uses the Schrick cams & (most likely) a more aggressive tuning then the Dinan stroker motor.
        No but it also is a 4.4. The cams are a BIG point. Vette gets a cam but M3 no?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oldgixxer Click here to enlarge
        How much do a set of those cams run?
        Something like 2500.
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        No but it also is a 4.4. The cams are a BIG point. Vette gets a cam but M3 no?
        No I agree. All Motor, Bolt-Ons + Cams for both the M3 & Z06, but after that there are no more excuses for either car
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        $2500 for cam thats just crazy. Havin flashbacks to VR6 cams...

        That Z06 with a good cam, cold air, headers and tune is around 420-30whp. Maybe more but that's a realistic number. If its got ported heads and a ported intake that's 470-80whp. The latter is a mid to high 10sec car on a tire. The former is low 11's all day
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        You only have one company to choose from and it's got VANOS. Can't compare to SOHC small block chevy for cost.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        $2500 for cam thats just crazy. Havin flashbacks to VR6 cams...

        That Z06 with a good cam, cold air, headers and tune is around 420-30whp. Maybe more but that's a realistic number. If its got ported heads and a ported intake that's 470-80whp. The latter is a mid to high 10sec car on a tire. The former is low 11's all day
        441 whp without a tune or cams is possible on a 4.6. S65 not looking so weak against a bigger motor right now...
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        441 whp without a tune or cams is possible on a 4.6. S65 not looking so weak against a bigger motor right now...
        Ive never said its weak I said it lacks tq... There's a difference!

        So 441whp and how much tq? Its crank rated by Dinan at 382lb-ft. My car made over 360lb ft to the tire on the motor with a cam, full exhaust, intake and tune. That's a non Z06 the Z is far stronger on power and tq.
      1. 600whp S4's Avatar
        600whp S4 -
        I would love to buy that stroker car do cams a good tune and spray it with a 100 SHOT
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        I'll say this as well my 01 Cobra with only an exhaust and K&N filter made 296/290 on the dyno. That tq was considered horrible in he Mustang world compared to the 5.0 small block motors. The multivalve setup gave it greater rpm but less tq. Without gears the sucked no way to get the tq multlication otherwise.

        This Dinan motor reminds me of that motor lots of rpm, good top end HP but weak on tq all over the place compared to the average small block.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 600whp S4 Click here to enlarge
        I would love to buy that stroker car do cams a good tune and spray it with a 100 SHOT
        Thatwould get interesting real fuggin fast...