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    • Already severely outgunned? Car Magazine claims the new F80 M3 will have 444 horsepower from its turbo inline-6

      Bavaria, we have a problem. The new M3 is coming and it isn't packing enough of a punch under the hood. We knew it would have a turbocharged inline-6 but we did not seriously think it would only have another 30 horses on the E9X M3 with its 414 horsepower naturally aspirated V8. The new C63 AMG is rumored to have a twin turbo 4.0 liter V8 and considering the C63 AMG (in Black Series trim) already is putting out more to the wheels than this M3 will be rated at the crank let alone what the new turbo C63 AMG will put out the new M3 is going to get smacked around badly if this is true.


      Someone at BMW apparently thinks only another 30 horses is a good idea. The S65 V8 in the E92 M3 offered another 70 horsepower AT THE WHEELS over the E46 M3 it replaced. With Mercedes bringing the heat and Audi set to go to a turbo motor, this does not look like it is going to cut it. 30 more horsepower? Is this a joke?

      The only bright side BimmerBoost can see is that the new M3 may be severely underrated just like the F10 M5. Let's assume this is the case and apply what we have all seen with the F10 M5 to the new M3. That would mean 417 wheel horsepower for the new M3 despite its appallingly low crank rating. That would also mean an increase of 67 wheel horsepower over the E92 M3 which is a hell of a lot better than 30 horsepower at the crank.

      With the new turbo motors BMW is making a habit of underrating them especially in M trim. The low crank rating likely designed not to insight a horsepower war with Mercedes and Audi which is already going on anyway with Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena. Regardless, assuming about 420 wheel horsepower (which is a best case scenario with a 444 hp crank rating) BMW is not going to win the raw power battle as they did with the F10 M5 temporarily until Mercedes regains the crown.

      BMW M3 fans may be starting to sweat just a bit.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Already severely outgunned? Car Magazine claims the new F80 M3 will have 444 horsepower from its turbo inline-6 started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 164 Comments
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
        Just wondered if they had announced some super special new feature about handling or something
        titanium cup holders..
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
        Just wondered if they had announced some super special new feature about handling or something
        The M Marketing Division (irony) is probably hiding in a closet after the VIN got discovered & the world found out there was no legit power increase.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        E30 M3 more powerful than Mercedes 190E. Handed it its ass in DTM.

        E28 M5 basically had no competition.

        E34 M5 comes along, still nothing.

        E36 M3, no real competition from Mercedes. Absurdly powerful in Euro trim with the S50. Still somewhat hard to believe it was that ahead of its time. BMW got away with giving the USA almost 100 less horsepower and the car was STILL better than everything.

        E46 M3 comes out, makes everyone wet. I camp out at the dealership until I get one basically. Mercedes only had AMG models to rival after they had a controlling interest in AMG acquiring 51% officially in 1999. This led to the supercharged W203 C32 AMG. Benz douchebags proclaim superiority. I take my stock E46 M3 and race a stock C32 AMG. I win, race after race, and post video on bimmerforums and mbworld. Much cheering ensues, parade thrown, banned from MBworld and Bimmerforums for a while due to rubbing it in the doubters faces.

        E39 M5 is still king at this time. W210 E55 has only 350 horsepower and the E39 M5 spits in its face and laughs. Not only does it have more power but a better chassis along with a real manual transmission.

        AMG gets pissed off from BMW M peeing on them and stealing their lunch money circa 2003. They deliver a supercharged W211 E55. The 600 model V12's get turbos. They raise the stakes with the 65 AMG to a level nobody thought they would which BMW has no answer for and still doesn't. BMW pretty much pretends the Benz twin turbo V12's with over 600 horsepower don't exist.

        Regardless, BMW's remain the better drivers cars. BMW makes a mistake with the E60 M5 by not delivering more displacement than the E39 M5 but the motor has 100 horses on it and up top its faster than the E55. But, Mercedes-AMG closed the gap strictly power wise.

        That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!.
        Google is your friend, Sometimes your lackmof knowledge alarms me.

        Look into the AMG 500 SEL and the AMG Hammer from the 80s, both of them were the most powerul sedans in the world in their day.
      1. kev335i's Avatar
        kev335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        titanium cup holders..
        Ok so thats 1 reason
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Google is your friend, Sometimes your lackmof knowledge alarms me.

        Look into the AMG 500 SEL and the AMG Hammer from the 80s, both of them were the most powerul sedans in the world in their day.
        The Hammer was epic for sure, but to be technical it was not a Mercedes factory model it was an aftermarket conversion. Still a sick ride for sure, always loved that car.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        The 500E was the E34 M5 rival. The Hammer was way too expensive even though it worth the money IMO. I remember the Hammer 6.0 Coupe was even more expensive than my dad's 560SEC. Pricey stuff.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        The Hammer was epic for sure, but to be technical it was not a Mercedes factory model it was an aftermarket conversion. Still a sick ride for sure, always loved that car.
        That is not the basis of conversationhere, Sticky said BMW's have alwasy made more power than AMG's throughout history and I was just pointing out the gross error in his comment. Fact is that AMG's have made more power than many M cars dating back to the early 1980's. Let's not forget about the Mercedes 190E with the 16V Cosworth engine, 186 hp from the factory and a twist of a screwdriver and disconnect a vacuum hose on the wastegate and it was making over 300hp.

        Here is the quote Sticky made that I was addressing.

        "That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!."

      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        If you can't beat em, join em...

        http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...sis-guru-bmw-m

        BMW hires Another amg engineer lol
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Google is your friend, Sometimes your lackmof knowledge alarms me.

        Look into the AMG 500 SEL and the AMG Hammer from the 80s, both of them were the most powerul sedans in the world in their day.
        My lack of knowledge? Seriously? I just listed all that off the top of my head and it's all correct.

        AMG was not a part of Mercedes-Benz back then and neither of those tanks held a candle to the M5.

        Let me tell you something about the 500 cars you are referring to, both failed to finish the Spa 24 Hours in the 80's. Check out how BMW M was doing in racing their factory based M cars, not from an aftermarket tuner like AMG was, and how badly Mercedes was being beaten all over the place.

        The AMG hammer had 360 horsepower from a 5.6 liter V8 which was just AMG squeezing a larger V8 into the inferior W124 chassis. The M5 ran circles around this car and this was not a factory Mercedes car once again. It was a tuner special. If you want to make this comparison you would have to look at Alpina cars, Dinan, or whatever other BMW tuner. Once again, Mercedes themselves had nothing and BMW M slapped them around for a LONG time.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
        If you can't beat em, join em...

        http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...sis-guru-bmw-m

        BMW hires Another amg engineer lol
        Nice tip, thanks!!
      1. bobS's Avatar
        bobS -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Nice tip, thanks!!
        Not gonna lie, saw it pop up on fb from $#@!post.com

        Still interesting....it's the second amg engineer hired recently by BMW
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        That is not the basis of conversationhere, Sticky said BMW's have alwasy made more power than AMG's throughout history and I was just pointing out the gross error in his comment. Fact is that AMG's have made more power than many M cars dating back to the early 1980's. Let's not forget about the Mercedes 190E with the 16V Cosworth engine, 186 hp from the factory and a twist of a screwdriver and disconnect a vacuum hose on the wastegate and it was making over 300hp.

        Here is the quote Sticky made that I was addressing.

        "That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!."

        LOL... Point taken, I misread that as being AMG Models via MB directly since being acquired. To that end then yes absolutely AMG has made more power than the factory MB or BMW's. BMW tuners like Alpina and Hartge made some sweet rides as well. You lost me on the 109 however the 2.3 16V Cosworth was NA, not sure how you turn up the boost on a NA motor. AMG did have a performance pack if I recall correctly but that I believe was on the 2.5 EVO cars. I could be wrong its been a while
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Fact is that AMG's have made more power than many M cars dating back to the early 1980's. Let's not forget about the Mercedes 190E with the 16V Cosworth engine, 186 hp from the factory and a twist of a screwdriver and disconnect a vacuum hose on the wastegate and it was making over 300hp.
        AMG's haven't made more power as there was no official Mercedes-Benz AMG car. Mercedes-Benz had nothing, as stated, as they had no dedicated performance arm
        UNTIL 1999.

        And even once they did as stated the E46 M3 was faster than the C32 AMG. The E39 M5 chewed up and spat out the W210 E55. The M3 laughed at Mercedes for 3 GENERATIONS.

        You bring up tuner cars from the 80's which were not even as good as what BMW had on the table from M. What was the Mercedes answer to the E28 M5? To go have a tuner build you a car because they couldn't? You never walked into any MBUSA dealership and bought an AMG to answer to BMW because they didn't even exist.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        LOL... Point taken, I misread that as being AMG Models via MB directly since being acquired.
        No you read it correctly. The first AMG's were not more powerful than the BMW M counterparts. And I can think of no AMG car even in its history as an aftermarket tuner that was any better than the comparable offering from a BMW tuner or even than what BMW M was offering themselves.

        AMG once actually offered as a real model in the Mercedes lineup and not one-off special ALA RUF was not faster or more powerful than BMW and for decades there was no Mercedes response/answer. So... um, ya, like I said.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        AMG's haven't made more power as there was no official Mercedes-Benz AMG car. Mercedes-Benz had nothing, as stated, as they had no dedicated performance arm
        UNTIL 1999.

        And even once they did as stated the E46 M3 was faster than the C32 AMG. The E39 M5 chewed up and spat out the W210 E55. The M3 laughed at Mercedes for 3 GENERATIONS.

        You bring up tuner cars from the 80's which were not even as good as what BMW had on the table from M. What was the Mercedes answer to the E28 M5? To go have a tuner build you a car because they couldn't? You never walked into any MBUSA dealership and bought an AMG to answer to BMW because they didn't even exist.
        Thats not my quote thats his...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Sticky said BMW's have alwasy made more power than AMG's throughout history
        They have been as AMG was not a BMW M competitor until 1999. There was nothing to compare...
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Such a good question. I have no idea unfortunately. This would be the first M3 to be lighter than than the previous generation if that were the trend but based on the F30 and then looking at the F10 M5 it's not a good sign.

        We also may lose 50/50 weight distribution...
        Yeah, I am more curious about the 50/50 weight distribution myself also, but think too that we will see some weight savings somewhere. I have a feeling dropping as much as been guessed (E46 M3 weight) will be really hard without an insane price increase in the car. One thing that caught my eye the other day though was that the next M3 will have a different designation than the F30, not sure where I saw it now though. F8? F80?

        Not really sure if that helps anything to be honest. Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, I am more curious about the 50/50 weight distribution myself also, but think too that we will see some weight savings somewhere. I have a feeling dropping as much as been guessed (E46 M3 weight) will be really hard without an insane price increase in the car. One thing that caught my eye the other day though was that the next M3 will have a different designation than the F30, not sure where I saw it now though. F8? F80?

        Not really sure if that helps anything to be honest. Click here to enlarge
        Ya F80/F82. We'll see...
      1. Tony@VargasTurboTech's Avatar
        Tony@VargasTurboTech -
        I couldn't be happier that they are releasing a inline 6 TT that is under powered in their number one tuner car ever. Thank you BMW!
      1. bigdnno98's Avatar
        bigdnno98 -
        C63 AMG FTW!