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    • ESS VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3 with claimed 570 wheel horsepower at 7.5 psi beaten by heads/cam/intake/exhaust Camaro SS with 520 wheel horsepower

      Very surprising race here with an ESS VT2-625 supercharged M3 taken down by an all motor LS3 Camaro SS. On paper, this race should easily go the M3's way considering it is claimed to have 570 wheel horsepower at 7.5 psi and also being the significantly lighter car. 570 wheel with a dual clutch transmission is good for 130 MPH trap speeds which a 520 wheel Camaro SS won't match. More power, less weight, dual clutch trans, the M3 should win rather easily. So what gives?

      The Camaro SS with the LS3 naturally aspirated V8 has modified heads, a cam, intake, and exhaust said to be good for around 520 wheel horsepower.


      BimmerBoost has no explanation other than the M3 likely not making the power claimed (it's easier to race on a dyno than in the real world) and possibly not having the right pulley either. Recently a BimmerBoost forum member stated they had a different pulley shipped with their ESS kit than they should have so it's possible this M3 owner isn't making the horsepower or boost they thought they were. The M3 is also said to be a DCT so how a dual clutch car making more power, shifting faster, and with less weight can lose is beyond reason unless the Camaro has more going on than he is letting on (nitrous).


      This article was originally published in forum thread: ***VIDEO*** BMW E92 M3 (ESS VT-625) vs All-Motor Camaro SS (Mr. TORQ) [HD] started by AWD75 View original post
      Comments 229 Comments
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Titan9 Click here to enlarge
        Why did it not perform to the ESS spec? it could be a number of things is all i am saying. Tune, bad injectors, pulley, cooling - possible heat soak, etc. Maybe he needs to swap the gears out.
        This is what we call "excuses" in the business. For a kit that's advertised as a "bulletproof bolt-on supercharger", there's a lot of excuses when it loses to some reasonable competition.

        With most VF-Engineering, Active Autowerke or Evolve (especially once their kit becomes more popular), if they lost they'd simple admit they lost to a better performing car. With ESS, it always seems to be "well the car wasn't running 100%" or the competition sandbagged them.
      1. ChuckD05's Avatar
        ChuckD05 -
        LM have you ran ERM... ?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Titan9 Click here to enlarge
        you asked were this took place. i answered you - DNT = Dallas North Tollway.

        As for why the M lost, it could me a number things. On paper it appears the M>camaro. in the video the camaro clearly wins the match. Why did it not perform to the ESS spec? it could be a number of things is all i am saying. Tune, bad injectors, pulley, cooling - possible heat soak, etc. Maybe he needs to swap the gears out. AS for the Camaro, it clearly did what it was set up to do. Flat out straight line speed. would love to see how it performs on a track.

        As for my take. i really don't care.
        I think your posts are reasonable. It could be a number of things.

        But... a 570 whp DCT M3 should not have had trouble.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        Heh, I was reading this from the beginning when it was only Lostmarine defending the M and was wondering where Sticky was. Then I skipped to Sticky's article and bam. Backup acquired.

        All I know is that the new Camaro's I've run are slow as $#@!. They prob don't have the mods this one has, but still. 4k is a lot of weight.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Titan9 Click here to enlarge
        you asked were this took place. i answered you - DNT = Dallas North Tollway.

        As for why the M lost, it could me a number things. On paper it appears the M>camaro. in the video the camaro clearly wins the match. Why did it not perform to the ESS spec? it could be a number of things is all i am saying. Tune, bad injectors, pulley, cooling - possible heat soak, etc. Maybe he needs to swap the gears out. AS for the Camaro, it clearly did what it was set up to do. Flat out straight line speed. would love to see how it performs on a track.

        As for my take. i really don't care.
        again, what makes you think it wasnt ess spec? because it lost? because any loss from an ess car means its not running 100%?
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
        LM have you ran ERM... ?
        ERM stripped his car because of the rod bearing issue before i got mine, then he sold the blower.

        I HAVE run other 600-625-650 cars. The 600 car didnt catch me until 140+ then only pulled inches
        The 625 car was .3/3,mph faster than me on the same EXACT day, but he had lightweight wheels, and interior stripped.. basically a 200lb weight difference.
      1. Titan9's Avatar
        Titan9 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
        again, what makes you think it wasnt ess spec? because it lost? because any loss from an ess car means its not running 100%?
        all i am saying is that a dct m3 with a sc kit advertising 570whp should not lose to a 520whp camaro.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        I call BS. Something is not right. The M3 should have done a better job against the Camaro.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Titan9 Click here to enlarge
        all i am saying is that a dct m3 with a sc kit advertising 570whp should not lose to a 520whp camaro.
        exactly.. so what else could it be? we can assume both cars are running 100% from the fact that both cars agreed to race, who would race when the cars not running right..
      1. Titan9's Avatar
        Titan9 -
        /\
        Hell if I know. One thing that I do know is that I have seen the car at the local c&c meet. I didnt go the last couple months. If its held next month, I'll be sure to stop by and talk to the owner and get his story.

        By the way fellas, I'm a newbie to this forum. I joined to gain knowledge about FI as i will be adding a sc to my e39 next year. Ess was at the top of my list, but now I'm leaning towards the guy that created a sc kit while tooling around in his mom's garage. Sal at evolve writes the tune for it.

        I have noticed a lot of talk about who has the fastest ride. Maybe some of you should come down to Texas in march. I'm sure the yellow camaro and the M will be in attendance. www.texasmile.net
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Titan9 Click here to enlarge
        all i am saying is that a dct m3 with a sc kit advertising 570whp should not lose to a 520whp camaro.
        That's what I am saying as well.
      1. rader1's Avatar
        rader1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        That's what I am saying as well.
        Just getting a peak horsepower number doesn't really tell you much. The LS3 was probably making north of 500whp the entire pull where the s65(probably) didn't hit that mark until the last ~1k RPMs and fell back off after every shift. Just look at any blown M3 graph, all the power is in the last couple hundred RPMs.


        I'm not hating or dogging the s65(it is an absolutely sick engine) but the area under the curve(even with a blower) just isn't there. Just my 2 cents.
      1. nafoo's Avatar
        nafoo -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
        Just getting a peak horsepower number doesn't really tell you much. The LS3 was probably making north of 500whp the entire pull where the s65(probably) didn't hit that mark until the last ~1k RPMs and fell back off after every shift. Just look at any blown M3 graph, all the power is in the last couple hundred RPMs.


        I'm not hating or dogging the s65(it is an absolutely sick engine) but the area under the curve(even with a blower) just isn't there. Just my 2 cents.
        That's why I want to see dyno graphs. There's a lot more to how a car performs than JUST peak numbers.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
        Just getting a peak horsepower number doesn't really tell you much. The LS3 was probably making north of 500whp the entire pull where the s65(probably) didn't hit that mark until the last ~1k RPMs and fell back off after every shift. Just look at any blown M3 graph, all the power is in the last couple hundred RPMs.


        I'm not hating or dogging the s65(it is an absolutely sick engine) but the area under the curve(even with a blower) just isn't there. Just my 2 cents.
        Trust me I understand power under the curve but this Camaro is not trapping over 130 and the m3 on rpm drop going to redline is at the meat of its top hp
      1. benzy89's Avatar
        benzy89 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Trust me I understand power under the curve but this Camaro is not trapping over 130
        For any of the new gen Camaro's are gonna need a bolt-on turbo or supercharger kit to hit those speeds in the 1/4 mile
      1. rader1's Avatar
        rader1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Trust me I understand power under the curve but this Camaro is not trapping over 130 and the m3 on rpm drop going to redline is at the meat of its top hp
        I highly doubt the camaro will be trapping 130, but it looks like the m3 isn't going be trapping 130 either.
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
        Just getting a peak horsepower number doesn't really tell you much. The LS3 was probably making north of 500whp the entire pull where the s65(probably) didn't hit that mark until the last ~1k RPMs and fell back off after every shift. Just look at any blown M3 graph, all the power is in the last couple hundred RPMs.


        I'm not hating or dogging the s65(it is an absolutely sick engine) but the area under the curve(even with a blower) just isn't there. Just my 2 cents.
        True story...add to the fact the NA car should be more responsive the the FI car and have an easier time getting going through the rpm range.
      1. Blaizon's Avatar
        Blaizon -
        Just read the thread on m3post...too funny!
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
        Just getting a peak horsepower number doesn't really tell you much. The LS3 was probably making north of 500whp the entire pull where the s65(probably) didn't hit that mark until the last ~1k RPMs and fell back off after every shift. Just look at any blown M3 graph, all the power is in the last couple hundred RPMs.


        I'm not hating or dogging the s65(it is an absolutely sick engine) but the area under the curve(even with a blower) just isn't there. Just my 2 cents.
        I just did some quick play with MS paint. The toys are

        1) ESS VT2-625 with 550whp
        Attachment 23747

        2) Modded LS3 with 518whp
        Attachment 23748

        And the results:

        The areas under the HP curve of both car. Of course the M3 has a wider range of RPM in highway roll due the gearing:
        Attachment 23749

        And this is the part we should focus on. The delta between the two areas. As you can see, even if the M3 didn't have the wider RPM range, it would still top the Camaro.
        Attachment 23750

        Add above with other facts like the lower weight of the M3, you will notice that something is not right.
      1. LostMarine's Avatar
        LostMarine -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        I just did some quick play with MS paint. The toys are

        1) ESS VT2-625 with 550whp
        Attachment 23747

        2) Modded LS3 with 518whp
        Attachment 23748

        And the results:

        The areas under the HP curve of both car. Of course the M3 has a wider range of RPM in highway roll due the gearing:
        Attachment 23749

        And this is the part we should focus on. The delta between the two areas. As you can see, even if the M3 didn't have the wider RPM range, it would still top the Camaro.
        Attachment 23750

        Add above with other facts like the lower weight of the M3, you will notice that something is not right.
        close, but you need to find a dynojet 520hp camaro to be fairly accurate, or a DD dyno M3. OORRR a similarly modded camaro on a dj even if #s are not the same