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    • ESS VT3-725 supercharged built motor E92 M3 S65 V8 compared to VT2-625 - Underwhelming results?

      There are going to be several built motor supercharged S65 V8 M3 V8 setups starting to roam the streets this year. ESS will have the VT2-725, Gintani will have their Stage III and Stage III+, and Active Autowerke will have their level 4. Each takes a different approach with ESS using the same Vortech V3Si blower their kits already employ, Gintani offering Vortech T-Trim, V3, and YSI options, and Active Autowerke employing a Rotrex C-38 but is able to accommodate other blowers as well.

      Here is the different between a VT3-725 and a VT2-625 supercharger setup, both on DCT M3's with meth in SAE correction:


      645 wheel for the built motor setup and 586 wheel for the stock internal setup. VT2-650 kits claim to be over 600 wheel on stock internals so one has to ask themselves if it is worth the cost to build a motor for only 50 wheel horsepower? $15,000+ on top of the supercharger kit for 50 wheel? Sure this power will likely be more reliable but one has to scratch their head at this price for performance ratio. It certainly makes sense to upgrade to a VT3 setup if one were to take the stock motor too far though.

      The Vortech blower used here is approaching its limit. For a built motor application, it would seem to be a bit undersized as 12 psi is not providing all that much versus the 7.5 psi of the stock internal kit partially due to the lower compression. To really see solid gains a bigger blower is necessary. Gintani has shown up to 16.5 psi with a Vortech YSI thus far and higher dyno results on the lower reading Dyno Dynamics dyno.

      Hopefully a comparison of the three major built motor setups will be able to be made soon.
      This article was originally published in forum thread: ESS VT3-725 supercharged built motor E92 M3 S65 V8 compared to VT2-625 - Underwhelming results? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 173 Comments
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
        It would be interesting to see some the built Gintani motors at similar PSI.
        If it's the larger blower it will make more power at the same boost.

        Plus it's not like Drew actually paid full price for any of this.
      1. Autobahn335i's Avatar
        Autobahn335i -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Call me crazy I just expect motor power from a FI built V8 anything...
        I guess you meant "more" power. Are you implying these numbers represent the absolute limit for the S65? Somebody should twin-turbo that engine!
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
        Not sure about other companies but I recently saw dynos of an ESS VT2-600 running at the richest 13.0 AFR at redline. Every where else was relatively leaner.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV6fzQQc7UA

        umm....13.00AFR is lean as $#@!
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If it's the larger blower it will make more power at the same boost.

        Plus it's not like Drew actually paid full price for any of this.
        Who mentioned price? Based on the shown info thats not overly impressive power for a fully built motor with boost was my point.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        I guess you meant "more" power. Are you implying these numbers represent the absolute limit for the S65? Somebody should twin-turbo that engine!
        My statement minus the typo is pretty concise. I would expect a FI fully built V8 motor to make much more power than shown. Perhaps someone is making more power but thats not shown.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
        Not sure about other companies but I recently saw dynos of an ESS VT2-600 running at the richest 13.0 AFR at redline. Every where else was relatively leaner.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV6fzQQc7UA

        that would be crazy if the S65 was running 13.xxAFR...i hope that was a typo
      1. flipm3's Avatar
        flipm3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        that would be crazy if the S65 was running 13.xxAFR...i hope that was a typo
        Watch the YouTube video. They overlayed the DynoJet data acquisition interface. Never once did I see it dip into the 12s.
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by flipm3 Click here to enlarge
        Watch the YouTube video. They overlayed the DynoJet data acquisition interface. Never once did I see it dip into the 12s.

        wow...thats SUPER lean...makes my 10.3afr at redline in the V look SUPER DUPER rich
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        This is like the 4th dyno I have seen with a super lean afr.. How is it not blowing up?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        I guess you meant "more" power. Are you implying these numbers represent the absolute limit for the S65? Somebody should twin-turbo that engine!
        The motor is capable of a ton more power with a decent blower...
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If it's the larger blower it will make more power at the same boost.

        Plus it's not like Drew actually paid full price for any of this.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Autobahn335i Click here to enlarge
        I guess you meant "more" power. Are you implying these numbers represent the absolute limit for the S65? Somebody should twin-turbo that engine!
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        wow...thats SUPER lean...makes my 10.3afr at redline in the V look SUPER DUPER rich
        10.3 is SUPER DUPER rich... LOL
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        This is like the 4th dyno I have seen with a super lean afr.. How is it not blowing up?
        dude i have NO idea...lol....my LSA would have spit out a piston by now....i dunno....maybe the S65 is built really well?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Who mentioned price? Based on the shown info thats not overly impressive power for a fully built motor with boost was my point.
        You did, you said for the money it's not impressive. I agree, if these were my results I'd call them pathetic and be embarrassed to post them. Obviously you realize this isn't indicative of all the blown cars right?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        Perhaps someone is making more power but thats not shown.
        What are you talking about? Did you even click the links in the OP? Gintani is showing much more power: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...I-supercharger

        More power at the wheels as well with low boost on a Dyno Dynamics...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        wow...thats SUPER lean...makes my 10.3afr at redline in the V look SUPER DUPER rich
        What I was trying to explain to you... there are many other dynos as well.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        dude i have NO idea...lol....my LSA would have spit out a piston by now....i dunno....maybe the S65 is built really well?
        Yes it is plus the ECU is pretty forgiving. No cast parts like the LSA Click here to enlarge
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
        10.3 is SUPER DUPER rich... LOL
        saw a 9.9 last couple times out....needless to say there is a bunch of untapped power left in the V.....but thats for another thread and another time....back to the fact that the S65 is running on a 13.xx+AFR
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yes it is plus the ECU is pretty forgiving. No cast parts like the LSA Click here to enlarge
        which is why my LSA is getting an entire callies compstar rotating assembly.... Click here to enlarge
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        You did, you said for the money it's not impressive. I agree, if these were my results I'd call them pathetic and be embarrassed to post them. Obviously you realize this isn't indicative of all the blown cars right?



        What are you talking about? Did you even click the links in the OP? Gintani is showing much more power: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...I-supercharger

        More power at the wheels as well with low boost on a Dyno Dynamics...
        Uh no I did not mention money at all... And Flywheel HP means what to me?
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Yes it is plus the ECU is pretty forgiving. No cast parts like the LSA Click here to enlarge

        is it reducing the timing? id assume so....or is it running like 25+ deg at redline with that 13.xxAFR?
      1. Andrew@activeautowerke's Avatar
        Andrew@activeautowerke -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ultimateendz Click here to enlarge
        dude i have NO idea...lol....my LSA would have spit out a piston by now....i dunno....maybe the S65 is built really well?
        Not built that wellClick here to enlarge
      1. ultimateendz's Avatar
        ultimateendz -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
        Not built that wellClick here to enlarge

        well someone shed light as to why the S65 is still alive running so lean.....inquiring minds (or just me) want to know....