• Controversy: Is the SLS AMG faster than the 458 Italia stock for stock?

      A debate has been raging on the BenzBoost forums and we decided it was finally time to put together information on these two cars to help sort out the video below. There are three races and the SLS gets the jump in the first two. In the first race the SLS is lined up ahead and gets on the gas first pulling. In the second video a mix-up in the honks has the SLS jump again leading the 458 to have to run it down which it can not. The third race is the cleanest with the SLS still pulling away and rather quickly.


      Now, this has led to people from each side yelling and screaming at each other. Here is what we know, the SLS dyno's more on a dynojet stock. There are variables involved of course but based on the graphs we have thus far the 458 baselines around 450 wheel and the SLS around 488 wheel. Advantage, SLS.

      458:

      SLS:


      So power favors the SLS but what about the weight? Well, Road and Track weighed the 458 Italia at 3490 pounds. The SLS AMG comes in at 3795 pounds. 300 pounds in favor of the 458 Italia although this is mitigated more from a roll than from a stop.

      This may help explain why the 458 Italia gets a better elapsed time in the 1/4 mile versus the SLS stock for stock. It's rear engine launch is also a large factor helping it get off the line better. Going back to Road and Track, the numbers are 11.0@128.5 versus 11.6@124.3 for the Italia and SLS respectively. 0-120 numbers favor the Italia by 1.2 second stock for stock, not a small difference.

      Shift speed has been stated to favor the 458 with the SLS at 100ms to its 40ms. This disparity seems too large for the same technology from the same supplier, Getrag. As a matter of fact, they are basically the same unit. So is there really that large of a disparity here? We don't think so.

      So how do you explain the outcome of the video? The only explanation is that the SLS is not stock. Logically, this is the only conclusion one can reach to explain how the SLS leaves the 458 the way it does. The weight is not as large of a factor once the cars are moving but even so we should see the 458 slowly pull not the SLS jumping out and destroying the 458. A stock SLS simply is not capable of it based on the data presented here. The stock claims are likely misleading and for SLS owners to boast. This is why we prefer track numbers for support but even without them a video can still be broken down. If we are incorrect, someone do this same race with two stock cars and prove us wrong. One thing is certain, both are fast cars and examples of some of the best vehicles available today.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: SLS AMG vs Ferrari 458 started by Jacob502 View original post
      Comments 192 Comments
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm trying to find someone with a an SLS and 458 willing to run but it is not easy. I think a new vid would really put an end to all this and be helpful.
        Find someone with and SLS and I'll get a 458
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Do you have his graph by any chance? Nobody has seen one that high yet and it would be awesome to have it.
        Ask and you shall receive.... Click here to enlarge I finally got a chance to get in touch with my friend with the Ferrari 458 (he's out of state on business right now). He said his car dynos differently on different dynos (as expected) but more interestingly, he said the more he ran it, the better it got. The lowest it ever dynoed was 457 whp and the highest was 478 whp. Here is a crude cell phone picture I took while we were at the dyno shop a year ago.

        Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It would likely be close but we would have to see it. Nobody is doing 280-325 rolls though.
        Not if the speeds we're targeting are higher than one of the car's top speed.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Regarding the shif times, I don't know how there would be that large of a gap. I'll look into it more as it just feels off based on the technology. Sequentials have outshifted 100ms and even autos are hitting around that now I think.
        As you can see, the 100 ms shift time comes directly from the Mercedes-AMG site. Regular auto trans (speaking about Mercedes ones) are not that fast yet. I think I read one time that they were close to 200 ms (I'll have to double-check to confirm though).
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        No problem Moe. My bro and I have alof of respect for you
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        Moe
        I respect you man I would never attack a respectful person like you even if you disagree with me . I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say and that is totally fine as long as it is civil.
        Thanks guys, the feeling is mutual.... Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        Lets see if you can film anything for us. We cant race our SLS with our 458, as our SLS is modded with one of the best mods around. Please talk to your friends moe, and see if you can get another video for us all. all my buddies in the UAE/Qatar with Ferrari 458's are all tuned.loool
        Unfortunately my friend's Ferrari now has headers + tune + exhaust work. But in the winter time, I usually organize a couple of track events, and I know at least 2 Ferrari 458 Italia's that are still stock. They would be happy to make a video but I do NOT know anyone with a stock SLS. If I can find someone in our next track event, I will definitely film it Click here to enlarge
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        .
        Sticky, here are some VBox runs from the 458 Italia. It has a bunch of 0 to 60 mph and 60 to 130 mph runs. I don't have the software, so please post them when you get a chance.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        .
        Sticky, here are some VBox runs from the 458 Italia. It has a bunch of 0 to 60 mph and 60 to 130 mph runs. I don't have the software, so please post them when you get a chance.
        Was busy over the weekend obviously, I will get to this.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Thanks guys, the feeling is mutual.... Click here to enlarge



        Unfortunately my friend's Ferrari now has headers + tune + exhaust work. But in the winter time, I usually organize a couple of track events, and I know at least 2 Ferrari 458 Italia's that are still stock. They would be happy to make a video but I do NOT know anyone with a stock SLS. If I can find someone in our next track event, I will definitely film it Click here to enlarge
        Did he get any runs with this headers, tune, and exhaust? He has the baseline so if it was me I would be itching to see the difference!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Ask and you shall receive.... Click here to enlarge I finally got a chance to get in touch with my friend with the Ferrari 458 (he's out of state on business right now). He said his car dynos differently on different dynos (as expected) but more interestingly, he said the more he ran it, the better it got. The lowest it ever dynoed was 457 whp and the highest was 478 whp. Here is a crude cell phone picture I took while we were at the dyno shop a year ago.




        Not if the speeds we're targeting are higher than one of the car's top speed.



        As you can see, the 100 ms shift time comes directly from the Mercedes-AMG site. Regular auto trans (speaking about Mercedes ones) are not that fast yet. I think I read one time that they were close to 200 ms (I'll have to double-check to confirm though).
        Good stuff Mo, the highest I have ever seen is that 478 you just posted.

        The trans is a Getrag unit that is the same as the Ferrari. It just doesn't make sense to me that Mercedes would slow it down. I think it is a difference in how shift times are being measure or something of that sort as the hardware is capable of the exact same things. Considering Mercedes made a point about mentioning their software was more aggressive than what was seen in the California (also the same unit) why would they slow it down to 100ms when the California shifts faster than 100ms? See the inconsistency? It just doesn't make sense. I really don't think there is as large of a gap if any as what you are saying.
      1. SL55K's Avatar
        SL55K -
        They should have raced from 0.
        Surprised to see how quick the SLS is
      1. NatAsp-M3's Avatar
        NatAsp-M3 -
        This would be more believable if the results were closer, but it's not. That SLS literally slingshots ahead. The race should be much closer. This pill is too big for anyone with common knowledge of these cars to swallow. It is not stock and is prob running race gas. We need to see a real stock face off here.

        Next thread, SLS crushes F12, LOL.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
        Next thread, SLS crushes F12, LOL.
        Maybe even Enzo's successor. Click here to enlarge

        BTW i forgot which 360 you got. Modena or Challenge Stradale?
      1. NatAsp-M3's Avatar
        NatAsp-M3 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Maybe even Enzo's successor. Click here to enlarge

        BTW i forgot which 360 you got. Modena or Challenge Stradale?
        The Stradale. The newer generations are so much faster and more refined, but I love the raw go-cart feeling of the Stradale.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NatAsp-M3 Click here to enlarge
        The Stradale. The newer generations are so much faster and more refined, but I love the raw go-cart feeling of the Stradale.
        Definitely. Also the sound it makes is just insane.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Good stuff Mo, the highest I have ever seen is that 478 you just posted.

        The trans is a Getrag unit that is the same as the Ferrari. It just doesn't make sense to me that Mercedes would slow it down. I think it is a difference in how shift times are being measure or something of that sort as the hardware is capable of the exact same things. Considering Mercedes made a point about mentioning their software was more aggressive than what was seen in the California (also the same unit) why would they slow it down to 100ms when the California shifts faster than 100ms? See the inconsistency? It just doesn't make sense. I really don't think there is as large of a gap if any as what you are saying.
        I'm not so sure the tranny is identical to the one in the 458 Italia. Judging solely by my feel of the two cars, more specifically after driving the SLS intensely on Laguna Seca road course at the AMG driving academy, and after been driven in the Ferrari 458 Italia more than a few times, the shifting and responsiveness of the 458 transmission felt very decisively faster than that of the SLS. I understand that it could've been an illusion because the Ferrari is a smaller car and feels lighter, but my gut feeling tells me that the tranny in the 458 is way faster.

        Does anyone know if any of the accelerometers are able to measure shift speed? That would be a fun test to try out...
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        I'm not so sure the tranny is identical to the one in the 458 Italia.
        Based on what? It seems to be the same Getrag model from everything I have read.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        the shifting and responsiveness of the 458 transmission felt very decisively faster than that of the SLS.
        It's shifting a different powerband at a different RPM. Also, the location of the gearbox is in a different area. It should feel different even if it is the same unit just like the 335 DCT feels different than the M3 despite being the same box.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        I could be wrong but the 458 I drove also shifted MUCH harder which would lead me to believe higher line pressure which gives the illusion of a faster shift. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the 458 shifts are faster - up and down.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        I could be wrong but the 458 I drove also shifted MUCH harder which would lead me to believe higher line pressure which gives the illusion of a faster shift. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the 458 shifts are faster - up and down.
        Line pressure definitely could be different between the two.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        looool. the video you saw is in the USA. cant you see the side markers on the SLS. My bros SLS is a red one with a carbon fiber stripe. everybody knows his SLS

        like I said arguing with you is like watching flies f*ck.

        just shut up already. Every post you continoue to make proves more and more of what a moron you are.


        I just found out you were banned from Mbworld. Go figure.looool

        Hey Jacob, I just found out the same about you:



        jacob502 Click here to enlarge

        Banned

        http://mbworld.org/forums/members/169961-jacob502.html


        Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Well I guess we're in the same boat...loooool
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        Well I guess we're in the same boat...loooool
        don't think so - your boat is a sinking ship. Bye bye chump !!!
      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        don't think so - your boat is a sinking ship. Bye bye chump !!!
        Whatever makes you happy dude!