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    • Controversy: Is the SLS AMG faster than the 458 Italia stock for stock?

      A debate has been raging on the BenzBoost forums and we decided it was finally time to put together information on these two cars to help sort out the video below. There are three races and the SLS gets the jump in the first two. In the first race the SLS is lined up ahead and gets on the gas first pulling. In the second video a mix-up in the honks has the SLS jump again leading the 458 to have to run it down which it can not. The third race is the cleanest with the SLS still pulling away and rather quickly.


      Now, this has led to people from each side yelling and screaming at each other. Here is what we know, the SLS dyno's more on a dynojet stock. There are variables involved of course but based on the graphs we have thus far the 458 baselines around 450 wheel and the SLS around 488 wheel. Advantage, SLS.

      458:

      SLS:


      So power favors the SLS but what about the weight? Well, Road and Track weighed the 458 Italia at 3490 pounds. The SLS AMG comes in at 3795 pounds. 300 pounds in favor of the 458 Italia although this is mitigated more from a roll than from a stop.

      This may help explain why the 458 Italia gets a better elapsed time in the 1/4 mile versus the SLS stock for stock. It's rear engine launch is also a large factor helping it get off the line better. Going back to Road and Track, the numbers are 11.0@128.5 versus 11.6@124.3 for the Italia and SLS respectively. 0-120 numbers favor the Italia by 1.2 second stock for stock, not a small difference.

      Shift speed has been stated to favor the 458 with the SLS at 100ms to its 40ms. This disparity seems too large for the same technology from the same supplier, Getrag. As a matter of fact, they are basically the same unit. So is there really that large of a disparity here? We don't think so.

      So how do you explain the outcome of the video? The only explanation is that the SLS is not stock. Logically, this is the only conclusion one can reach to explain how the SLS leaves the 458 the way it does. The weight is not as large of a factor once the cars are moving but even so we should see the 458 slowly pull not the SLS jumping out and destroying the 458. A stock SLS simply is not capable of it based on the data presented here. The stock claims are likely misleading and for SLS owners to boast. This is why we prefer track numbers for support but even without them a video can still be broken down. If we are incorrect, someone do this same race with two stock cars and prove us wrong. One thing is certain, both are fast cars and examples of some of the best vehicles available today.


      This article was originally published in forum thread: SLS AMG vs Ferrari 458 started by Jacob502 View original post
      Comments 192 Comments
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        Bro. Just leave it. we dont need to convince everybody. we have been getting negative repped, and ironically LZH has been positive repped. Obviously Joseph Likes him.

        Lets get out of this thread and unsubscribe. Not running away, but enough with the stupidity
        Dude you have been getting neg repped cause you and your brother are $#@!ing douchebag retards. Obviously the other members here agree what what I have said and disagree with you two - are you so stupid that you don't realize that ???? And you want to now say it is Joseph who is giving me positive rep ???? Another stupid uninformed statement. Joshep's rep power is 126. As of a couple days ago my rep power was in the 280's. If he had positive repped me my rep power would have gone up to over 400. So once again you are making idiotic statements to try and cover the fact that the other members here simply don't agree with you. Perhaps you should change the way you post and you would get a more positive response from people.
      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        LZH,

        YOU ARE A LIAR. The owner of the SLS did not make that comment!

        I wanted to post about it, but I did not think you are worth it, and obviously my bro also realised yur pathetic lie and commented. The user has been around for a long time? so what? it could be on of your gay friends. We never mentioned that the user was just created.looool

        now i'm done with this thread. Have fun trolling loser
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Hey Jacob - you can think whatever you like. What I find funny is that you think I would actually go to the trouble of creating fake usernames, email addresses etc just to do what ????? Prove you wrong ?? I don't need to do that man because you have done it for me with your ridiculous posts and everyone here already knows you are wrong as evidenced by your rep. I just found it funny and timely that someone said they were the owner and the car was not tuned and I can guarantee you it was not me. But now I apparently have gay friends ? Do you have something against homosexuals ? See it's comments lie that which make both you and your arrogant brother unpopular around here. Maybe you should go back to MBW where you can hide behind the mods lol.
      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Hey Jacob - you can think whatever you like. What I find funny is that you think I would actually go to the trouble of creating fake usernames, email addresses etc just to do what ????? Prove you wrong ?? I don't need to do that man because you have done it for me with your ridiculous posts and everyone here already knows you are wrong as evidenced by your rep. I just found it funny and timely that someone said they were the owner and the car was not tuned and I can guarantee you it was not me. But now I apparently have gay friends ? Do you have something against homosexuals ? See it's comments lie that which make both you and your arrogant brother unpopular around here. Maybe you should go back to MBW where you can hide behind the mods lol.

        LIAR!Click here to enlarge
      1. I am Jeff's Avatar
        I am Jeff -
        Looks like Luke has found a new friend. Click here to enlarge
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        LOL - not exactly.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't know what we are basing the 458 having a faster trans on though with them both being dual clutches.
        I drove the SLS around Laguna Seca's road course and been driven in the 458 Italia at Famoso. The Italia's shifts felt more crispy and much more defined than the SLS's. But aside from the "feel" gauge, I believe the DCT in the SLS is documented to shift at 100 ms while the 458's transmission (made by Getrag) is documented to shift at 40 ms. This means in a 2-shift roll race, everything else being equal, the Ferrari would have a 0.12 second lead (120 ms); with 3 shifts, the Ferrari would have 0.18 second; and as the number of shifts go up, the worse it gets for the SLS (speaking only in terms of shifts).

        Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Lower cd and better aero are somewhat redundant.
        True, but cd is constant while aerodynamics play a much better roll the faster you go - more specifically at extremely high speeds.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Terminal velocity is not indicative of acceleration from a roll.
        If this comment was directed at my number 6 comment in my previous post, then please note I made that comment in very strict context: only at those extremely high speeds. For example: a roll race from 280 km/h to 325 km/h.... obviously the Ferrari would be seen accelerating away from an SLS.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        We need to see more races but the SLS does put down more power to the wheels which is the most important factor in a roll on.
        I'm not sure if the Ferrari puts down that much less hp than the SLS. We definitely need a bigger sample to play with. My friend's Ferrari put down 465 whp SAE and I believe 479 whp uncorrected.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        Bro. Just leave it. we dont need to convince everybody. we have been getting negative repped, and ironically LZH has been positive repped. Obviously Joseph Likes him.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        agree we have been getting negative reps for no reason.
        No reason to leave.... you guys are big car enthusiasts just like most people here. I went back and positive repp'ed you guys to try and even things out a bit.

        Just please leave personal insults out of the discussion. You guys did the same thing to me (and maybe others) when I disagreed with you about one little thing on mbworld a while back. Then it kept getting worse until two of the moderators intervened. I respect your contribution to this site and all your feedback so lets please keep it clean and on-track.

        I actually lean towards your side of the argument a little bit (that the SLS would win from a roll) but I was just wondering why this maybe happening if the Ferrari seems to have the advantage. There's actually very good discussion in this thread if you remove all the clutter Click here to enlarge

        I would've loved to find a stock SLS close to my area so I could film a couple of close races but unfortunately my friend's car is now modified: tune + headers + minor exhaust modifications Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        Bro. Just leave it. we dont need to convince everybody. we have been getting negative repped, and ironically LZH has been positive repped. Obviously Joseph Likes him.

        Lets get out of this thread and unsubscribe. Not running away, but enough with the stupidity
        I think you guys are getting negative reps due to insults instead of just making your points.

        In all honesty, the strongest point would be for you to make one of you great vids with this exact race.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Just please leave personal insults out of the discussion. You guys did the same thing to me (and maybe others) when I disagreed with you about one little thing on mbworld a while back. Then it kept getting worse until two of the moderators intervened. I respect your contribution to this site and all your feedback so lets please keep it clean and on-track.
        Well said, this is exactly it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        My friend's Ferrari put down 465 whp SAE and I believe 479 whp uncorrected.
        Do you have his graph by any chance? Nobody has seen one that high yet and it would be awesome to have it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        If this comment was directed at my number 6 comment in my previous post, then please note I made that comment in very strict context: only at those extremely high speeds. For example: a roll race from 280 km/h to 325 km/h.... obviously the Ferrari would be seen accelerating away from an SLS.
        It would likely be close but we would have to see it. Nobody is doing 280-325 rolls though.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        True, but cd is constant while aerodynamics play a much better roll the faster you go - more specifically at extremely high speeds.
        The cd factors into your statement though.

        Regarding the shif times, I don't know how there would be that large of a gap. I'll look into it more as it just feels off based on the technology. Sequentials have outshifted 100ms and even autos are hitting around that now I think.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        A debate has been raging on the BenzBoost forums and we decided it was finally time to put together information on these two cars to help sort out the video below. There are three races and the SLS gets the jump in the first two. In the first race the SLS is lined up ahead and gets on the gas first pulling. In the second video a mix-up in the honks has the SLS jump again leading the 458 to have to run it down which it can not. The third race is the cleanest with the SLS still pulling away and rather quickly.


        Now, this has led to people from each side yelling and screaming at each other. Here is what we know, the SLS dyno's more on a dynojet stock. There are variables involved of course but based on the graphs we have thus far the 458 baselines around 450 wheel and the SLS around 488 wheel. Advantage, SLS.

        458:
        Click here to enlarge

        SLS:
        Click here to enlarge


        So power favors the SLS but what about the weight? Well, Road and Track weighed the 458 Italia at 3490 pounds. The SLS AMG comes in at 3795 pounds. 300 pounds in favor of the 458 Italia although this is mitigated more from a roll than from a stop.

        This may help explain why the 458 Italia gets a better elapsed time in the 1/4 mile versus the SLS stock for stock. It's rear engine launch is also a large factor helping it get off the line better. Going back to Road and Track, the numbers are 11.0@128.5 versus 11.6@124.3 for the Italia and SLS respectively. 0-120 numbers favor the Italia by 1.2 second stock for stock, not a small difference.

        Shift speed has been stated to favor the 458 with the SLS at 100ms to its 40ms. This disparity seems too large for the same technology from the same supplier, Getrag. As a matter of fact, they are basically the same unit. So is there really that large of a disparity here? We don't think so.

        So how do you explain the outcome of the video? The only explanation is that the SLS is not stock. Logically, this is the only conclusion one can reach to explain how the SLS leaves the 458 the way it does. The weight is not as large of a factor once the cars are moving but even so we should see the 458 slowly pull not the SLS jumping out and destroying the 458. A stock SLS simply is not capable of it based on the data presented here. The stock claims are likely misleading and for SLS owners to boast. This is why we prefer track numbers for support but even without them a video can still be broken down. If we are incorrect, someone do this same race with two stock cars and prove us wrong. One thing is certain, both are fast cars and examples of some of the best vehicles available today.

      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        Nice Artice!

        But if you contact "trakhose" on youtube. You will find out that the SLS is stock
      1. Jacob502's Avatar
        Jacob502 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Just please leave personal insults out of the discussion. You guys did the same thing to me (and maybe others) when I disagreed with you about one little thing on mbworld a while back. Then it kept getting worse until two of the moderators intervened. I respect your contribution to this site and all your feedback so lets please keep it clean and on-track.
        No problem Moe. My bro and I have alof of respect for you

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        I actually lean towards your side of the argument a little bit (that the SLS would win from a roll) but I was just wondering why this maybe happening if the Ferrari seems to have the advantage. There's actually very good discussion in this thread if you remove all the clutter Click here to enlarge

        I would've loved to find a stock SLS close to my area so I could film a couple of close races but unfortunately my friend's car is now modified: tune + headers + minor exhaust modifications Click here to enlarge

        Lets see if you can film anything for us. We cant race our SLS with our 458, as our SLS is modded with one of the best mods around. Please talk to your friends moe, and see if you can get another video for us all. all my buddies in the UAE/Qatar with Ferrari 458's are all tuned.loool

        I can set up races with my bro's SLS and some other tuned 458's, but this is out of this discussion
      1. George Smooth's Avatar
        George Smooth -
        It could just be that the fuel quality in the country the video was taken is poor and affects the 458 more than the SLS.
      1. Q4P's Avatar
        Q4P -
        hmmm... 458 is lighter, traps higher in the 1/4, aero advantage and somewhat of a gering advantage... i've heard stories ther are 130 mph + cars, i don't buy this video.
      1. SLS AMG's Avatar
        SLS AMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        No reason to leave.... you guys are big car enthusiasts just like most people here. I went back and positive repp'ed you guys to try and even things out a bit.

        Just please leave personal insults out of the discussion. You guys did the same thing to me (and maybe others) when I disagreed with you about one little thing on mbworld a while back. Then it kept getting worse until two of the moderators intervened. I respect your contribution to this site and all your feedback so lets please keep it clean and on-track.

        I actually lean towards your side of the argument a little bit (that the SLS would win from a roll) but I was just wondering why this maybe happening if the Ferrari seems to have the advantage. There's actually very good discussion in this thread if you remove all the clutter Click here to enlarge
        Moe

        I respect you man I would never attack a respectful person like you even if you disagree with me . I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say and that is totally fine as long as it is civil.

        It nice to see some discussions like this. What I'm talking about here is the exact experience that I had when my SLS was completely stock against a stock 458. I showed that the weight of both cars are as 1620Kg Curb Weigh (EU standard) and the Ferrari (about 1570 Kg EU Standard), so around 50 Kg difference (110 pounds). However Ferrari advertise their dry weight which is 1390Kg. Motortrend stated the Curb Weight of the Ferrari 458 in US standard which is around I think 1495Kg. The difference between curb weight of EU standard and US standard is that the EU standard includes 75 Kg driver while US standard does not. So that curb weight in MotorTrend of the Ferrari 458 would be around 1570Kg in EU standard.


        I only realized all of this weight standards after beating a stock Ferrari 458 with my SLS when it was stock. I even thought that the 458 would kill me and I was surprised that I beat it . That's why I went searching all about this and found out that the actual weight differnce is 50Kg and SLS has more wheel horsepower. Also if you see this same thread at Mbworld you will see a member who has an SLS and posted and said that he has beaten a stock Ferrari 458 with his stock SLS AMG.
      1. inlineS54B32's Avatar
        inlineS54B32 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        A debate has been raging on the BenzBoost forums and we decided it was finally time to put together information on these two cars to help sort out the video below. There are three races and the SLS gets the jump in the first two. In the first race the SLS is lined up ahead and gets on the gas first pulling. In the second video a mix-up in the honks has the SLS jump again leading the 458 to have to run it down which it can not. The third race is the cleanest with the SLS still pulling away and rather quickly.


        Now, this has led to people from each side yelling and screaming at each other. Here is what we know, the SLS dyno's more on a dynojet stock. There are variables involved of course but based on the graphs we have thus far the 458 baselines around 450 wheel and the SLS around 488 wheel. Advantage, SLS.

        458:

        SLS:


        So power favors the SLS but what about the weight? Well, Road and Track weighed the 458 Italia at 3490 pounds. The SLS AMG comes in at 3795 pounds. 300 pounds in favor of the 458 Italia although this is mitigated more from a roll than from a stop.

        This may help explain why the 458 Italia gets a better elapsed time in the 1/4 mile versus the SLS stock for stock. It's rear engine launch is also a large factor helping it get off the line better. Going back to Road and Track, the numbers are 11.0@128.5 versus 11.6@124.3 for the Italia and SLS respectively. 0-120 numbers favor the Italia by 1.2 second stock for stock, not a small difference.

        Shift speed has been stated to favor the 458 with the SLS at 100ms to its 40ms. This disparity seems too large for the same technology from the same supplier, Getrag. As a matter of fact, they are basically the same unit. So is there really that large of a disparity here? We don't think so.

        So how do you explain the outcome of the video? The only explanation is that the SLS is not stock. Logically, this is the only conclusion one can reach to explain how the SLS leaves the 458 the way it does. The weight is not as large of a factor once the cars are moving but even so we should see the 458 slowly pull not the SLS jumping out and destroying the 458. A stock SLS simply is not capable of it based on the data presented here. The stock claims are likely misleading and for SLS owners to boast. This is why we prefer track numbers for support but even without them a video can still be broken down. If we are incorrect, someone do this same race with two stock cars and prove us wrong. One thing is certain, both are fast cars and examples of some of the best vehicles available today.


        Is this not a perfect example of total area under the curve? Since we aren't going to actually calculate, you can count the squares under each curve. Each square represents the exact same amount of "power" in each graph (x/y increase same in each)- you can easily see the advantage goes to the 458. It's not peak horsepower, it's average.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jacob502 Click here to enlarge
        Nice Artice!

        But if you contact "trakhose" on youtube. You will find out that the SLS is stock
        Thanks, It may be but then the Italia may have some kind of issue if it is losing that badly.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SLS AMG Click here to enlarge
        Moe

        I respect you man I would never attack a respectful person like you even if you disagree with me . I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say and that is totally fine as long as it is civil.

        It nice to see some discussions like this. What I'm talking about here is the exact experience that I had when my SLS was completely stock against a stock 458. I showed that the weight of both cars are as 1620Kg Curb Weigh (EU standard) and the Ferrari (about 1570 Kg EU Standard), so around 50 Kg difference (110 pounds). However Ferrari advertise their dry weight which is 1390Kg. Motortrend stated the Curb Weight of the Ferrari 458 in US standard which is around I think 1495Kg. The difference between curb weight of EU standard and US standard is that the EU standard includes 75 Kg driver while US standard does not. So that curb weight in MotorTrend of the Ferrari 458 would be around 1570Kg in EU standard.


        I only realized all of this weight standards after beating a stock Ferrari 458 with my SLS when it was stock. I even thought that the 458 would kill me and I was surprised that I beat it . That's why I went searching all about this and found out that the actual weight differnce is 50Kg and SLS has more wheel horsepower. Also if you see this same thread at Mbworld you will see a member who has an SLS and posted and said that he has beaten a stock Ferrari 458 with his stock SLS AMG.
        I'm trying to find someone with a an SLS and 458 willing to run but it is not easy. I think a new vid would really put an end to all this and be helpful.