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    • Roll on Race - Stock SL65 Black Series versus stock Nissan GT-R

      The Nissan GT-R is a very fast car in stock form. However, its main strength is going from a stop with its all wheel drive and dual clutch transmission allowing it to get a jump on most cars. From a roll, it isn't exactly unbeatable in stock form as this race with an SL65 Black Series shows. The GT-R in the video is said to a be a 485 horsepower version so likely a 2008-2010 model. We would like to see how a 2012 would fair in its place but the SL65 would likely still dominate it.



      This article was originally published in forum thread: Roll on Race - Stock SL65 Black Series versus stock Nissan GT-R started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 51 Comments
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        We haven't even seen the M275 V12 with some big, big turbos.
        But we have seen some big boosted VR38dett and they all KILL any M275. maybe someday M275's potential can be unleashed, but today isn't that day.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        But we have seen some big boosted VR38dett and they all KILL any M275.
        Uh, ya, because of running high boost. You push that much air into an M275 and it will RAPE that little V6.

        I'll take a 6.0 liter V12 on pure potential.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Uh, ya, because of running high boost. You push that much air into an M275 and it will RAPE that little V6.

        I'll take a 6.0 liter V12 on pure potential.
        VR38deTT with 13 psi makes 540hp and 466lb-ft. Modded GT-R's with 25psi make 800whp and 650wtq. With 35psi you are in 1300whp range.

        Stock M275 is boosted to 20 something psi, right?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Stock M275 is boosted to 20 something psi, right?
        No, 600's are around 11.6 psi stock. The 65 is 22 psi stock as rated by MB but boost reading show that is just a spike that tapers down to 17 or so.

        Regardless, 35 psi on some big ass turbos on an M275 is going to flat out abuse the same amount of back pressure on the GT-R.

        We have never seen the V12 really pushed like it can be.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        No, 600's are around 11.6 psi stock. The 65 is 22 psi stock as rated by MB but boost reading show that is just a spike that tapers down to 17 or so.

        Regardless, 35 psi on some big ass turbos on an M275 is going to flat out abuse the same amount of back pressure on the GT-R.

        We have never seen the V12 really pushed like it can be.

        Ah Sticky, but this is not true anymore. There is a guy on MBworld that did exactly that to his SL65. I thought his name is Soul searcher if I am not mistaken. Anyway, He removed the log manifolds with the cast in turbos, and went to tube headers with two HUGE snails mounted in the fenders. He was supposedly near the 1000H range, but has been fighting electrical gremlins last time I heard. This car was at the Texas mile last year, but was not running strong as of yet.

        I'll dig up the details. Or send a pm to Benz O as he has all the real dirt these days.

        PS: It is the log manifolds that KILL all 600 and 65 motors. ONLY alternative is to replace them, aka BIG BUCKS.

        Well at least too much for my blood, that is with two small kids anywayClick here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Ah Sticky, but this is not true anymore. There is a guy on MBworld that did exactly that to his SL65. I thought his name is Soul searcher if I am not mistaken. Anyway, He removed the log manifolds with the cast in turbos, and went to tube headers with two HUGE snails mounted in the fenders. He was supposedly near the 1000H range, but has been fighting electrical gremlins last time I heard. This car was at the Texas mile last year, but was not running strong as of yet.
        I know who you are talking about but that car hasn't yet shown its potential I believe.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        I'll dig up the details. Or send a pm to Benz O as he has all the real dirt these days.
        I think there is a thread on it in the M275 section here.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        PS: It is the log manifolds that KILL all 600 and 65 motors. ONLY alternative is to replace them, aka BIG BUCKS.
        Yep, it needs to be done due to the stupid cast crap. I think space restrictions are still an issue though...
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I know who you are talking about but that car hasn't yet shown its potential I believe.



        I think there is a thread on it in the M275 section here.



        Yep, it needs to be done due to the stupid cast crap. I think space restrictions are still an issue though...
        I thought you might my friend. And you are correct that it has NEVER really shown its true potential. I understand they were disappointed at the mile.

        And curse those DAMM engineers at MB for giving us these stupid logsClick here to enlarge
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        And you are also right about the boost trickling away. If memeory serves me right, I have around 18psi at 2000rpm, but it goes down to around 14 at red line. Damm those logsClick here to enlarge
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        So it's a 6 liter V12 with two digit boost, and it just makes 600hp? Is the head not that efficient or what's the cause?

        S54 with almost half displacement makes about the same hp with 13psi.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        So it's a 6 liter V12 with two digit boost, and it just makes 600hp? Is the head not that efficient or what's the cause?

        S54 with almost half displacement makes about the same hp with 13psi.
        Did you read my post? It is the exhaust manifold that limits us. AKA boost starts falling away after about 4500.

        However, did I mention that I have around 700lb/ft of toruqe at 2500Click here to enlarge
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Did you read my post? It is the exhaust manifold that limits us. AKA boost starts falling away after about 4500.
        Yes, cast manifolds suck. But i wasn't talking about tuning potential, i was talking about stock form. I know those little turbos run out of breath near redline, but you said they make 12 psi near redline. 6 liter and 12 psi IMO from AMG should make much more.
      1. mramg1's Avatar
        mramg1 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Yes, cast manifolds suck. But i wasn't talking about tuning potential, i was talking about stock form. I know those little turbos run out of breath near redline, but you said they make 12 psi near redline. 6 liter and 12 psi IMO from AMG should make much more.

        Okay, okay, no argument hereClick here to enlarge

        As far as the motor is concerned, there are MANY factors why it runs out of steam top end. First exhaust manifolds, enough said. Next SMALL intercoolers, so after a few gears things heat up VERY quick. Going on, small TB. Beleive it or not, the exhaust is one of the ONLY things that doesn't hurt usClick here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Yes, cast manifolds suck. But i wasn't talking about tuning potential, i was talking about stock form. I know those little turbos run out of breath near redline, but you said they make 12 psi near redline. 6 liter and 12 psi IMO from AMG should make much more.
        Look at the torque numbers. The thing is at full boost way earlier than a GT-R. It's basically all raw power down low.

        With a different cam setup and some head work it will make more top end power.

        It simply ultimately has way more potential and will have a fatter curve.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mramg1 Click here to enlarge
        Okay, okay, no argument hereClick here to enlarge

        As far as the motor is concerned, there are MANY factors why it runs out of steam top end. First exhaust manifolds, enough said. Next SMALL intercoolers, so after a few gears things heat up VERY quick. Going on, small TB. Beleive it or not, the exhaust is one of the ONLY things that doesn't hurt usClick here to enlarge
        I hear you man. These German automakers sometimes do things that really piss you off.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Look at the torque numbers. The thing is at full boost way earlier than a GT-R. It's basically all raw power down low.

        With a different cam setup and some head work it will make more top end power.

        It simply ultimately has way more potential and will have a fatter curve.
        Low end is cool, but i really don't care about it. I'm all about top end.

        It has potential, but no one is going to extract in near future whereas VR's are showing their best after just 4 years.
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam -
        Turbos are the replacement for displacement. Slap the same set of turbos on both cars and you'll make more power with the VR.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        Low end is cool, but i really don't care about it. I'm all about top end.

        It has potential, but no one is going to extract in near future whereas VR's are showing their best after just 4 years.
        It's due to the amount of people modding. That V12 up top doesn't exactly run out of breath, it's a constant stream of power from basically anywhere in the rev range. With some huge turbos it will have an absurd top end.

        More people need to tune that motor.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
        Turbos are the replacement for displacement. Slap the same set of turbos on both cars and you'll make more power with the VR.
        Based on what? Mercedes detunes the Sl65 black series because of the absurd amount of torque it makes. If it got some real turbos it will make more power. It will always have the displacement and cylinder advantage.
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Based on what? Mercedes detunes the Sl65 black series because of the absurd amount of torque it makes. If it got some real turbos it will make more power. It will always have the displacement and cylinder advantage.
        Based on the fact that the V12 will choke on the turbine side sooner than the VR will with the same set of turbos and the VR will rev higher. Besides from a purely realistic view let me know when that V12 gets to 1500hp like the VR has. Diesel trucks make tons of torque, how fast are they?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Jimefam Click here to enlarge
        Based on the fact that the V12 will choke on the turbine side sooner than the VR will with the same set of turbos and the VR will rev higher. Besides from a purely realistic view let me know when that V12 gets to 1500hp like the VR has.
        What, you think it can't just because more people tune GT-R's? There is nothing the VR can't do that a 6.0 liter V12 can't do better. Would be great if we saw dozens of companies pushing the M275 but we don't because the GT-R is basically purchased to be tuned.
      1. Jimefam's Avatar
        Jimefam -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What, you think it can't just because more people tune GT-R's? There is nothing the VR can't do that a 6.0 liter V12 can't do better. Would be great if we saw dozens of companies pushing the M275 but we don't because the GT-R is basically purchased to be tuned.
        Again the VR is an oversquare DOHC motor it's gonna breathe and rev much better so it's VE will be much better. The M275 is excellent for what it is meant to do, quickly move heavy ass sedans around and make alot of torque to seem effortless but it chokes up top. It undersquare and sohc man it's meant for low rev grunt not top end. It'll bake the tires but it's not anywhere near as efficient as the VR will be. Again if you put the same set of twins on both cars the VR will make more HP every time.