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    • Weistec Engeering Stage 1 63 AMG M156 V8 supercharger is now 50 state legal - CARB certification approved

      A major congratulations is in order for Weistec who managed to pull off what many said would be impossible. CARB certification (California Air Resource Board) is extremely difficult due to the strict emission controls employed in the state. It is usually only large manufacturers making parts for domestics that have any luck with CARB certification using aftermarket superchargers (Magnusson, NOVI, Stillen) and we searched but could not find another modern example of a CARB certified aftermarket supercharger system for a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi. Not Dinan, not Renntech, not Active Autowerke, not VF-Engineering, not APR, not ESS, not Gintani, nobody producing superchargers for the aforementioned makes has achieved this on a platform produced in the last decade. That should put things in perspective.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Weistec Stage 1 Supercharger is now 50 State Legal started by Weistec View original post
      Comments 61 Comments
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Callaway found a solution as do many others. So, the warranty talk isn't even a big deal IMO as obviously there are options.
        As obviously I am aware of this as this is exactly what I suggested in the post you quoted. Not sure why you took my post as a doubt as to whether it could be accomplished.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Callaway found a solution as do many others. So, the warranty talk isn't even a big deal IMO as obviously there are options.
        I'm not sure which solution you are referring to in this post: CARB approval or third party warranties? We both acknowledge that third party warranties are available to aftermarket parts manufacturers. So, lets look at the other issue: CARB approval.

        And here, we're are not talking about CARB exemption as Weistec has obtained their E.O. for their stage 1 kit. We are talking about Weistec 63's.

        Do you think there will be Weistec 63's? I don't. How much longer do you think the M156 will be in production?

        In the next few years AMG's will all be turbocharged. Weistec can of course turn their attention to turbocharging technology. I'm 100% confident they could design a turbo system.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        As obviously I am aware of this as this is exactly what I suggested in the post you quoted. Not sure why you took my post as a doubt as to whether it could be accomplished.
        I wasn't doubting you, I was agreeing. Not sure why it came off that way I'm sure once this gets further along a nice solution will be found.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        I'm not sure which solution you are referring to in this post: CARB approval or third party warranties?
        This was in response to your post about the warranty.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        And here, we're are not talking about CARB exemption as Weistec has obtained their E.O. for their stage 1 kit. We are talking about Weistec 63's.

        Do you think there will be Weistec 63's? I don't.
        I'm not quite sure I follow you here? Weistec 63's? You mean like a brand name car?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        How much longer do you think the M156 will be in production?
        Likely until the SLS and the C63 BS end production.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I'm not quite sure I follow you here? Weistec 63's? You mean like a brand name car?
        @Sticky, please... Yes, like a brand name car. I've been speaking about Callaway. I mentioned their company because through their efforts, superchargers are being sold with Corvettes. The same superchargers that are sold in Callway Vettes are available in the aftermarket. The issue is that these blowers have an E.O., but your local Chevy dealership cannot (per the E.O. language) sell you this blower with the purchase of your Vette. That practice is excplicity excluded from the permissible applications provided in the E.O.

        So, how does a Maggy get sold on Vette from a Chevy dealer? Callaway Vettes. To analogize with the MB 63 market, that would be like MB dealers selling Weistec 63's. That's how Weistec, presumably, can get their blower on an MB car prior to sale to an end purchaser.

        I've already said all of this.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        @Sticky , please... Yes, like a brand name car. I've been speaking about Callaway. I mentioned their company because through their efforts, superchargers are being sold with Corvettes.
        Sorry man, this thread has multiple topics within the topic and I was never even considering Weistec doing anything like Callaway as in selling brand name cars. I don't think that will ever happen and nobody has interest in it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        So, how does a Maggy get sold on Vette from a Chevy dealer? Callaway Vettes.
        I see what you are saying, like dealers selling Saleen cars.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        To analogize with the MB 63 market, that would be like MB dealers selling Weistec 63's. That's how Weistec, presumably, can get their blower on an MB car prior to sale to an end purchaser.
        I've spoken with Weistec about some of these things so I really don't want to go too far but the idea of factoring in the financing with the blower is being worked on. How they are going about it and how the warranty, financing, etc., all gets worked out is up to them to do and disclose.

        I understand your point.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        @Sticky,

        Okay, and I understand yours: There are some really cool things going on right now. I'm going to stop speculating. I hope Weistec can accomplish their goals.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        I hope Weistec can accomplish their goals.
        They have done everything they said they were going to until now so I'm confident we will continue to see amazing things. It's a good time to be an MB enthusiast with this motor.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        They have done everything they said they were going to until now so I'm confident we will continue to see amazing things. It's a good time to be an MB enthusiast with this motor.
        It's funny you wrote this. I was just coming back to my computer to acknowledge that Weistec accomplishes what they set out to do. That's admirable and clearly is an indication of their overall potential.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        A bit but um Champion is all part of one big family essentially and they are big enough to where they can offer a warranty on their "motorsports" parts. If a wheel breaks for example or whatever else. Regardless, you misunderstood as I was not referring to OEM parts that the dealer would have to warranty to begin with.



        Come on, do you really believe that? It isn't even relevant and kind of a left field post but maybe self-promotion of your own dealer network when you are listing other dealers installing your parts is a bit unprofessional and tacky don't you think? You really think you walk into Champion Porsche and they don't consider their own dealer capable of installing Champion parts? Really?



        Yes, there almost always is. Almost always... so dealers can and do offer their own warranties at times for a variety of things from cars to parts and it certainly can happen. So.... uh, now what?



        The confusion arises from not always having been the case. Dinan and BMW had a formal arrangement at one point.



        You can just do a search online but it's fairly well known, Renick Subaru.



        I don't think the dealership network had to eat all the labor and the engine issue you are referring to is the bearing recall which I'm not sure how BMWNA reimbursed or dealt with the labor by the dealers on that issue. As I said, certain issues are unique and official recalls probably have their own procedure that each manufacturer sets. For Porsche dealers try hard to get as many recall cars in as they make quite a lot of money this way from the labor.
        Actually, I think Champion Porsche and Champion Motorsports are clearly separated companies, which is an important delineation. In fact, while Champion Porsche kept on doing what they do, Champion Motorsports went through a bankruptcy restructuring not terribly long ago, IIRC. And, it makes perfect sense that not very much Champion Motorsports work would be performed at Champion Porsche... because they'd just do the installs at Champion Motorsports' (extremely nice) independent, standalone facility.

        Anyway, the entire point was that the warranty comes from the parts manufacturer, not from a dealership for those parts. Think of it this way: you're an approved dealer, you sell a blower kit and do the install. So, your revenue is the margin between the wholesale and retail cost of the hardware, plus the labor to do the install. Revenue is maybe a few thousand per kit. Profit margin is another story... maybe half that, or less? You (the dealership) are not going to then warranty everything that the manufacturer voids, and be potentially on the hook for a financial powertrain liability that could reach $50k+ per kit installed. Just doesn't make sense. The supplemental warranty coverage (if there ever is any) will come from Weistec, or it won't exist at all.

        I don't know of any warranties that dealers offer their customers, where they (the dealership) choose to self-insure the claims experience and risk. Maybe you do, and that's fine. Thanks for the Subie dealership name, I'll search it sometime and read up on what they do.

        Anyway, enough of muddying up this thread, as it's about Weistec's achievement in offering a 50-state, road-legal S/C kit, which is a big enough deal as it is.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Look im on my iphone trying to enjoy the world series at a bar. I will be sure to respond to everything later but the entire point is there are plenty of warranty options. Personally, I do not even care about warranties but your point, if we should still call it that, originated with the idea that the warranty will be voided. Ya, duh. There can be things substituted in place even with individual dealer agreements between Weistec and them. They can work out the details of that which would mean you could still preserve the original intent/period of the warranty (even beat it).
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This could lead to dealer agreements that would not void the warranty though.
        This is what I initially disagreed with, and agreed with LZH's preceding post that prompted your reply above.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Personally, I do not even care about warranties but your point, if we should still call it that, originated with the idea that the warranty will be voided. Ya, duh.
        Ya, duh - you seem to get it now. Click here to enlarge Dealers' agreements do not supercede MBUSA corporate's official position, when it comes to the validity of the new-car warranty MBUSA offers. Sure, something else (i.e. some third-party warranty coverage) can be supplemented in it's place - that's pretty obvious.

        Enjoy Game 7... pretty good game so far!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Uh, no, the original warranty would not be voided due to it being propped up by the dealer or Weistec, even both. Do you get it now?
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Uh, no, the original warranty would not be voided due to it being propped up by the dealer or Weistec, even both. Do you get it now?
        Logic isn't your strong suit. If the original warranty wasn't voided at all, there'd be no need to prop anything up.

        Weistec and/or the dealer "propping up" the lost (i.e. voided) coverage in the original warranty is the point, to make their clients whole - because aspects of the original MBUSA warranty would be lost.

        The original warranty would be voided, for any powertrain-related claims. You know what original means, right? If the dealer or Weistec "propped it up" by offering supplemental coverage (self-insured, or farmed-out to a third party), it would mean a new and different warranty was making up for the coverage lost within the original warranty.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        Logic isn't your strong suit. If the original warranty wasn't voided at all, there'd be no need to prop anything up.

        Weistec and/or the dealer "propping up" the lost (i.e. voided) coverage in the original warranty is the point, to make their clients whole - because aspects of the original MBUSA warranty would be lost.

        The original warranty would be voided, for any powertrain-related claims. You know what original means, right? If the dealer or Weistec "propped it up" by offering supplemental coverage (self-insured, or farmed-out to a third party), it would mean a new and different warranty was making up for the coverage lost within the original warranty.
        This is funny, I see what your problem is. You are having trouble differentiating between the MBUSA warranty being voided which is a separate issue from a warranty being in place which can be from a third party. Yes, the warranty is not void if a third-party takes over. The MBUSA warranty is (they simply aren't on the hook any longer) though but it doesn't matter since the original warranty is still intact from a third party. Kind of like how Dinan accepts the BMW warranty obligation meaning you don't lose your original warranty, right? Say they give you 4 years and 60,000 miles or whatever it is. You don't lose this if MBUSA voids their warranty and a third party picks up the original in place. So yes, the point stands that the original warranty would not be void if you still have everything that was guaranteed by it because you have not lost anything. The guarantor simply changes.

        Are you sure logic is your strong suit?
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        This is funny, I see what your problem is. You are having trouble differentiating between the MBUSA warranty being voided which is a separate issue from a warranty being in place which can be from a third party. Yes, the warranty is not void if a third-party takes over. The MBUSA warranty is (they simply aren't on the hook any longer) though but it doesn't matter since the original warranty is still intact from a third party. Kind of like how Dinan matches the BMW warranty, right? Say they give you 4 years and 60,000 miles or whatever it is. You don't lose this if MBUSA voids their warranty and a third party picks up the original in place. So yes, the point stands that the original warranty would not be void if you still have everything that was guaranteed by it because you have not lost anything. The guarantor simply changes.

        Are you sure logic is your strong suit?
        LOL.

        Your circular reasoning just goes and goes, and you wind up refuting your own points. A warranty isn't a concept - it's a contract. The original warranty is between the new-vehicle purchaser and MBUSA. You say the MBUSA warranty is voided, but that the original warranty isn't. That's quite a trick, since they are one and the same.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        LOL.

        Your circular reasoning just goes and goes, and wind up refuting your own points. A warranty isn't a concept - it's a contract. The original warranty is between the new-vehicle purchaser and MBUSA. You say the MBUSA warranty is voided, but that the original warranty isn't. That's quite a trick, since they are one and the same.
        If they are one in the same then how can the guarantor for it change and how can this "contract" be honored by someone else? Clearly the original warranty and the MBUSA obligation to honor it are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

        It isn't circular reasoning, it's a simple concept. I don't know why you are struggling with it.

        The warranty is expressed in writing. If everything guaranteed is preserved what have you lost? What warranty it gone? What is voided? Only the OEM manufacturer obligation to honor what they expressed has changed (or been voided), that's it, you still have your original warranty.
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If they are one in the same then how can the guarantor for it change and how can this "contract" be honored by someone else? Clearly the original warranty and the MBUSA obligation to honor it are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
        No. The original warranty contract between MBUSA and the vehicle owner explains what is covered, the duration of the coverage, what is excluded, and what actions will void the contract. MBUSA is obliged to honor claims that occur within the accepted parameters of the contract.

        It isn't circular reasoning, it's a simple concept. I don't know why you are struggling with it.
        I'm struggling with your liberal definition of "warranty" when you really mean "coverage" to suit your backpedaling argument - not with the concepts being discussed.

        If everything guaranteed is preserved what have you lost?
        From a coverage standpoint, perhaps nothing. From a contractual standpoint, you've lost aspects of your original new-vehicle warranty - which are no longer backed by the full faith and claims-paying-ability of MBUSA. Going forward, those aspects are now covered by the full faith and claims-paying-ability of "XYZ," per the parameters of a new, supplemental warranty contract. "XYZ" could be a breeze to deal with, or a nightmare, in the event of a submitted claim. Different contracts, different insurers, different reps/adjusters, etc.

        What warranty it gone? What is voided?
        The original warranty is gone (to varying degrees...), and coverage of those affected systems is voided per the language in the original warranty contract.

        A supplemental warranty from a third-party doesn't change the fact that the original warranty was voided.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        No. The original warranty contract between MBUSA and the vehicle owner explains what is covered, the duration of the coverage, what is excluded, and what actions will void the contract. MBUSA is obliged to honor claims that occur within the accepted parameters of the contract.
        I'm not quite sure at this point if you understand. A warranty and the obligation to pay for it are separate issues. The warranty can be preserved with another party while the obligation to pay for one party is gone. A warranty is simply an assurance between parties, it can change parties.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        I'm struggling with your liberal definition of "warranty" when you really mean "coverage" to suit your backpedaling argument - not with the concepts being discussed.
        It's not a liberal definition. It all made sense to me but you wanted it spelled it out so I spelled it out letter for letter and word for word.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        From a coverage standpoint, perhaps nothing.
        So... you still have your assurance for conditions that may happen from a party? Then you still have your warranty.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        which are no longer backed by the full faith and claims-paying-ability of MBUSA.
        All you have lost is MBUSA having to be the party assuring the warranty, that is it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by c32AMG-DTM Click here to enlarge
        The original warranty is gone (to varying degrees...), and coverage of those affected systems is voided per the language in the original warranty contract.
        No, it isn't gone. It didn't disappear. The parties have changed. The obligation to pay by MBUSA has been voided, the warranty remains intact. It was fun Click here to enlarge
      1. c32AMG-DTM's Avatar
        c32AMG-DTM -
        If you have a contract, just because someone else might offer the same terms, doesn't mean it's the same contract. Original is voided, the other replaces it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It was fun Click here to enlarge
        Yep. Moving on...