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    • Class action suit against Daimler AG / Mercedes due to M156 V8 (63 AMG) engine defects

      A class action suit is being brought against Mercedes / Daimler AG due to alleged defects in the M156 V8 motor. The suit states that these defects are due to premature wear. The premature wear taking place as a result of the material used in the camshafts. The camshafts used are made of cast nodular iron. The valve lifters used however are made of 9310 grade steel. In the official complaint it is stated that the combination of these metals as designed is contributing to premature wear of the M156 motors. This can be due to improper heat treating of the metals or improper offset. The main sticking point is that Mercedes and AMG have known about this since 2007 when service bulletin S-B 05.20/20b was released. We will keep you updated on the details as this goes forward.




































      This article was originally published in forum thread: Class action suit against Daimler AG / Mercedes due to M156 V8 (63 AMG) engine defects started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 842 Comments
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Above bold is why you are the worst attorney I've ever encountered because while you criticize others for making assumptions you just made one yourself...I'm retired you idiot - I work from home and when I say "work" I mean I manage my investments so that allows me a large amount of free time during your "workday".
        So you're not just a douchebag, you're a retired douchebag. Congratulations on your boredom.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Above bold is why you are the worst attorney I've ever encountered because while you criticize others for making assumptions you just made one yourself...I'm retired you idiot - I work from home and when I say "work" I mean I manage my investments so that allows me a large amount of free time during your "workday".
        Come on Luke, don't lie, we know you "work" from your boat sometimes too.
      1. MHP LLC's Avatar
        MHP LLC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Andy-

        Is it as easy as just pulling the valve covers to inspect the cams? Or, is it a much more involved job than that ? I'd be willing to have mine inspected to add to the database of knowledge - I'm due for an oil change anyway...
        Luke, Jim covered some of it below but if you're talking a legit visual inspection of the cams/buckets the sticks have to come out. That requires 2 special tools (not a big deal $280 total) and between 5-10hrs depending on the experience of the tech (I know large variance but we have guys that install headers in 2.5 hrs while others take 8-10hrs). You need to completely remove the cams and buckets, clean them off and then inspect. I'm all for you throwing more data in but this is more than most owners would be willing to do. If we had 300 owners willing of course I'd love to see the data.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Andy, first off I think it would be very easy to inspect a few hundred cams and most resonable people would not be against having their motors inspected to protect against possible future failure. If I recieved a letter asking me to bring one of my vehicles in for inspection I would have it there this week.
        I agree, in that case sure, but what if the cost was on you with no incentive? Because that's what we're dealing with now. If MB covered their work by all means 100% for it!

        Second, you mention loss of compression, so why not just perform compression tests, that is far less invasive than opening up the heads to get at the cams, right?
        That is a potential secondary possibility that will not effect all motors with the defect. It would take some serious time/wear (not mild or moderate which would still qualify for the suit) to put enough cam shavings between valve/seat or into chamber however it's all possible. I don't think anyone that's seen any OHC engine apart would disagree.

        Third, thanks for clarifying the model years affected, IMO that is very important info. The fact that you have seen it in 2008, 2009 and 2010 models tells me it's not isolated to a specific model year or a specific lot of cams or an issue they may have discovered and fixed with different cams or different lifters at some point along the line. IMO this is probably the single most important piece of evidence discussed in this 15 page thread. I still say 4 examples is not enough to cause panic but if your sampling of 8 vehicles that 4 of which (50%) exhibit the problem is even close to real world numbers then this is a very big issue, hell if it were 10% it would be a huge number. But based on the facts at hand we know of 4 affected motors at this point in time, sorry but a judge is going to laugh that one right out of court and they will never allow a simple sampling of 8 vehicles when 30k have been built. The Defendant will argue for GMP sampling standards which can require up to 3% testing and 7% failure rate.
        Just keep in mind we are but 1 shop and we are not the only ones to have seen this. I'm definitely not saying 8 motors are the end all be all but when you see the same major issue in half of them it's worth more than noting. In this case further investigation uncovered more defective engines and a lot of info from the motherland to go with it.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        So you're not just a douchebag, you're a retired douchebag. Congratulations on your boredom.
        Here's the visual picture in my head about you. You rent a crummy office in a run down strip mall, no receptionist (you cover all the bases, receptionist, janitor, accountant, attorney), an office filled with cheap laminated particle board furniture that came in a box and you assembled yourself. The phone never rings so you don't really need a receptionist, since the phone doesn't ring you don't get any billing so the need for an accountant is minimal. So in your free time you cook Hot Pockets in the microwave (which is disguistingly dirty by the way, better call the janitor), drink generic energy drinks and bad coffee and surf the web all day looking for threads on forums that have even the slightes hint of legal issues as topics so that you can at least excersise that law degree in some manner.....so am I close?
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        You're so far off I'm laughing. There are people posting ITT who know me. They're probably laughing as well. Thanks for the entertainment.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        So you're not just a douchebag, you're a retired douchebag. Congratulations on your boredom.
        So I make a valid point about you doing the same thing you are criticizing other of...and you respond with insults (and weren't you the one claiming to have class a few pages back?) Thanks for proving me right - keep up the good work!!!!
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Come on Luke, don't lie, we know you "work" from your boat sometimes too.
        LOL - yeah right....kinda hard to type when your doing 100+mph and launching off 4 footers Click here to enlarge
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MHP LLC Click here to enlarge

        Just keep in mind we are but 1 shop and we are not the only ones to have seen this. I'm definitely not saying 8 motors are the end all be all but when you see the same major issue in half of them it's worth more than noting. In this case further investigation uncovered more defective engines and a lot of info from the motherland to go with it.
        I understand that you are not saying 8 motors are the end all, but legally in court the judge can not allow in speculation. The plaintiffs attorneys can not just argue that this is a wide spread issue without proof. For sake of conversation lets just say there are 30 known cases of this world wide today, that number is still not significant enough to say there is a definate problem with ALL M156 motors and a judge would never award based on such a number because it would be overturned in an appeal I would assume. A larger sampling is probably a scary thought for both parties because it could go either way, somebody is going to benefit from thos facts.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        One more ting I forgot to mention. Like I have said a half dozen times in this thread already, if there is an issue they we are all lucky and owe Mr. Chan big time, however if there is not an issue all these costs incurred by MB will come back to us, the consumer in one way or another, whether it be higher MSRP, or higher parts or higher service rates, one way or another somebody is going to pay.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        I understand that you are not saying 8 motors are the end all, but legally in court the judge can not allow in speculation. The plaintiffs attorneys can not just argue that this is a wide spread issue without proof. For sake of conversation lets just say there are 30 known cases of this world wide today, that number is still not significant enough to say there is a definate problem with ALL M156 motors and a judge would never award based on such a number because it would be overturned in an appeal I would assume. A larger sampling is probably a scary thought for both parties because it could go either way, somebody is going to benefit from thos facts.
        How many times are you going to spew your bull$#@! in this thread representing to have knowledge? You are so far off from what actually happens, that I can't even begin to rehabilitate your statement with explanation you will absorb. Land Rover was sued for defective suspensions that prematurely wore tires unevenly. If you think the judge required the suspension of any of the vehicles to be disassembled, you're incorrect.

        Why do you keep offering statements purporting to be factual on topics you have no knowledge of? Every time you do this, you misinform everyone reading this thread.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        How many times are you going to spew your bull$#@! in this thread representing to have knowledge? You are so far off from what actually happens, that I can't even begin to rehabilitate your statement with explanation you will absorb. Land Rover was sued for defective suspensions that prematurely wore tires unevenly. If you think the judge required the suspension of any of the vehicles to be disassembled, you're incorrect.

        Why do you keep offering statements purporting to be factual on topics you have no knowledge of? Every time you do this, you misinform everyone reading this thread.
        so you are saying a judge can rule on this in favor of plaintiff with 8 or even 30 motors out of 30,000 exhibiting the problem? Show me precident of something similar and I will believe you and stop posting on this thread....I'm waiting douchebag
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        so you are saying a judge can rule on this in favor of plaintiff with 8 or even 30 motors out of 30,000 exhibiting the problem? Show me precident of something similar and I will believe you and stop posting on this thread....I'm waiting douchebag
        Judges don't rule on these cases, juries do. Judges aren't there to be the fact-finders in a jury trial. Most class actions are never tried to begin with.

        Marsikyan et. al. v. Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (1 car disassembled)
        In re Land Rover North America, Inc. (2 cars disassembled)
        Nguyen v. BMW NA (0 cars disassembled)

        No matter what I tell you, nothing will satisfy you. You will always be right and everyone else will always be wrong.

        You don't know how class actions products litigation works. Here's 3 cases. See you in another thread, douchebag.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        Judges don't rule on these cases, juries do. Judges aren't there to be the fact-finders in a jury trial. Most class actions are never tried to begin with.

        Marsikyan et. al. v. Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (1 car disassembled)
        In re Land Rover North America, Inc. (2 cars disassembled)
        Nguyen v. BMW NA (0 cars disassembled)

        No matter what I tell you, nothing will satisfy you. You will always be right and everyone else will always be wrong.

        You don't know how class actions products litigation works. Here's 3 cases. See you in another thread, douchebag.
        that's odd I thought a judge ruled on if this is even worthy of moving forward to the trial portion.
      1. b.wayne's Avatar
        b.wayne -
        Can we keep the legal jargon and logistics to a minimum? I think I've read through 10 pages of debate as to how the legal parties will proceed as opposed to critical feedback to the problem. It'd be nice if we can all play nicely seeing as we're working towards the same goal. Hate to see this turn into a Honda-tech thread.
      1. JRCART's Avatar
        JRCART -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        Judges don't rule on these cases, juries do. Judges aren't there to be the fact-finders in a jury trial. Most class actions are never tried to begin with.

        Marsikyan et. al. v. Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (1 car disassembled)
        In re Land Rover North America, Inc. (2 cars disassembled)
        Nguyen v. BMW NA (0 cars disassembled)

        No matter what I tell you, nothing will satisfy you. You will always be right and everyone else will always be wrong.

        You don't know how class actions products litigation works. Here's 3 cases. See you in another thread, douchebag.
        Were those class action suits? If so, you win, I'm outta this thread.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        that's odd I thought a judge ruled on if this is even worthy of moving forward to the trial portion.
        Judge only rules on class certification. Tearing apart a $#@! load of vehicles is not a requirement for that.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        Were those class action suits? If so, you win, I'm outta this thread.
        Of course they are. That's what you asked for.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by b.wayne Click here to enlarge
        Can we keep the legal jargon and logistics to a minimum? I think I've read through 10 pages of debate as to how the legal parties will proceed as opposed to critical feedback to the problem. It'd be nice if we can all play nicely seeing as we're working towards the same goal. Hate to see this turn into a Honda-tech thread.
        I would prefer we all work towards getting everyone's car working absent a defect. That would benefit all owners. In fact, if anyone has any pertinent information, I would recommend contacting one of the attorneys. The contact information is on the last page of the Complaint.
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Yomama, what is needed to rule in favor of Mr Chan? They surely have to have more than a service bulletin and Mr Chan's experience. The N54 HPFP had widespread support from many owners.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Documents, deposition testimony, and expert testimony. Most cases like this settle and are never ruled upon. The Land Rover case I mentioned earlier was different. That one had class certification ruled on and then it was appealed.
      1. MHP LLC's Avatar
        MHP LLC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        I'll have mine inspected and have the shop foreman oversee the job - he's a good friend and will give me an honest opinion. I guess a leakdown wouldn't be a bad idea either. Although the smallest percentage drop in pressure could be attributed elsewhere, but I guess if it doesn't stabilize then you know you have a big problem somewhere.
        Andy - have seen scoring so bad that you think it would show up in a leakdown ?
        Luke I have seen particulates from the cam/cams laying on top of the heads next to the valvesprings/valves. I have not yet seen a lack of compression due to particulates entering the chamber however it's easy to deduce that this is a viable option as I have seen flecks of metal from the cam sandwiched between valve and guide and that will also effect compression. If they can get between the valve/seat they are getting into the chamber as well.