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    • Class action suit against Daimler AG / Mercedes due to M156 V8 (63 AMG) engine defects

      A class action suit is being brought against Mercedes / Daimler AG due to alleged defects in the M156 V8 motor. The suit states that these defects are due to premature wear. The premature wear taking place as a result of the material used in the camshafts. The camshafts used are made of cast nodular iron. The valve lifters used however are made of 9310 grade steel. In the official complaint it is stated that the combination of these metals as designed is contributing to premature wear of the M156 motors. This can be due to improper heat treating of the metals or improper offset. The main sticking point is that Mercedes and AMG have known about this since 2007 when service bulletin S-B 05.20/20b was released. We will keep you updated on the details as this goes forward.




































      This article was originally published in forum thread: Class action suit against Daimler AG / Mercedes due to M156 V8 (63 AMG) engine defects started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 842 Comments
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        All M156 owners will be class members, so yes, if this is successful, everyone benefits. That's the point.
        All M156 owners will benefit only if the court finds for the plaintiff in "4" and "5" of "Damages and Prayer." If this case settles and "4" and "5" are not included in the settlement then it will not necessarily bea success for the rest of us M156ers. If "4" and "5" are not in the settlement (assuming momentarily that the case settles and doesn't win on all counts at trial) then other owners would have to bring their own actions and discover their own proof.

        I'm hopeful for this plaintiff but I'm skeptical that it's just going to go according to every prayer in the demand.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        Go on mbw and search "engine noise". I don't have time to look your $#@! up for you right now. I'll keep the backhanded comments as long as they're warranted. If you act like an $#@!, you'll be treated like an $#@!.
        I simply said that it hasn't been discussed anywhere that I've seen and you said my search has a touch of downs. That was unwarranted so quit acting like a f*cking d!ckhead and contribute to the discussion. I'm trying my hardest here to not take this thread down the usual muddy road but you are making it really hard for me to restrain myself. You don't have the time to post a link yet your responding to every post - uhhhhh, run out of people to accost in the ER ? Post a link or STFU because I've watched just about every M156 engine discussion on these boards since the motor was released and I have yet to see a thread where ANYONE has said the cams and buckets were a defective design and causing premature wear. Lots of "ENGINE NOISE" threads, but none that discuss what it being claimed in this lawsuit and by other members here who claim to have firsthand knowledge of the problem that AMG apparently has tried to sweep under the rug. So please prove me wrong and post a link...for the THIRD time.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        All M156 owners will benefit only if the court finds for the plaintiff in "4" and "5" of "Damages and Prayer." If this case settles and "4" and "5" are not included in the settlement then it will not necessarily bea success for the rest of us M156ers. If "4" and "5" are not in the settlement (assuming momentarily that the case settles and doesn't win on all counts at trial) then other owners would have to bring their own actions and discover their own proof.

        I'm hopeful for this plaintiff but I'm skeptical that it's just going to go according to every prayer in the demand.
        I will explain how it works. I think you'll understand. Paramount to a successful class action law suit is something called "class certification". There are 2 ways to achieve class certification. One, the Defendant agrees to it in a settlement. This happens quite often without even going to court. The other way is through an order granted by the judge. Even reluctant Defendants will often fold once the judge grants certification and then settle, therefore preventing the case from ever going to trial.

        That being said, the injunction is just asking the court to tell MB that it must issue recalls to defective parts it knows about in the future with this engine. That's not really important to solving the current camshaft/lifter defect. The camshaft/lifter defect can surely settle and benefit all owners without an injunction ordered.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        I will explain how it works. I think you'll understand. Paramount to a successful class action law suit is something called "class certification". There are 2 ways to achieve class certification. One, the Defendant agrees to it in a settlement. This happens quite often without even going to court. The other way is through an order granted by the judge. Even reluctant Defendants will often fold once the judge grants certification and then settle, therefore preventing the case from ever going to trial.

        That being said, the injunction is just asking the court to tell MB that it must issue recalls to defective parts it knows about in the future with this engine. That's not really important to solving the current camshaft/lifter defect. The camshaft/lifter defect can surely settle and benefit all owners without an injunction ordered.

        So you've got the time to give legal 101 class but can't post a link ?
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        I will explain how it works. I think you'll understand. Paramount to a successful class action law suit is something called "class certification". There are 2 ways to achieve class certification. One, the Defendant agrees to it in a settlement. This happens quite often without even going to court. The other way is through an order granted by the judge. Even reluctant Defendants will often fold once the judge grants certification and then settle, therefore preventing the case from ever going to trial.

        That being said, the injunction is just asking the court to tell MB that it must issue recalls to defective parts it knows about in the future with this engine. That's not really important to solving the current camshaft/lifter defect. The camshaft/lifter defect can surely settle and benefit all owners without an injunction ordered.
        Please understand I know what injunctive relief means and how it works as I briefed the same cases as you during Remedies class. Click here to enlarge

        If you pretend for a minute that other people can read a complaint and a damage prayer you may see what I was saying in my two prior posts.

        I'm hoping for the injunctive relief, which is not going to be a slam dunk part of this case. It involves fatual questions which will not be decided by a judge. They will either be settled favorably between the parties (here's hoping to that, but not holding my breath) or the case will go to a jury or maybe but highly unlikely, the parties will ask the court to be the fact finder.

        Injunctive relief is precisely what M156 owners want out of this case. First we want the factual issue to go in favor of the Plaintiff, then we want the court to order MB to fix the problem and stop denying it's alleged existence and stop denying valid warranty claims for this issue.

        It's like I write in plain English and you just read something else.
      1. b.wayne's Avatar
        b.wayne -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
        I have been making this very same point for ywo days now...This motor has been avialble and in the publics hands since August of 2006 and placed into 20-30k AMG 63's in the past 5 plus years and nobody mentions it on the 3 largest MB forums now one guy files a suit and it's an overnight epidemic? There are MB techs that participate on these boards, there are MB sales people that participate on these boards, I would like to think that something would have been mentioned before now f this is such an epidemic plaguing so many 63 vehicles. I am not saying it might not be the case, but I just can't believe it's blown up to the propotions some people are making it out to be. I am one of the few people on these boards that has actually seen my engine with the heads and cams removed, I specifically remember looking at my cams when my car was still back at evosport and I did not see any signs of excesive cam lobe wear, as a matter of fact my SLS cams where sitting right next to them and I could not even tell which was which, the stockers looked new. I guess what I am saying is that in this day and age with the internet available on every cell phone and a zillion forums out there pertaiing to a zillion topics that if this issue would have been mentioned earlier I would think.

        That being said there are some arguements being made that I can see being valid, but I am still sticking to my gut that this is not an issue that should be considered epidemic.
        This is my initial thought as well. I would imagine there is some documentation or pictures verifying said damage/excessive wear. I'm not suggesting that there is nothing wrong with our motor's, but I'm wondering where the concrete proof is? Surely someone would have taken pictures had there been anything abnormal in the motor?
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        So you've got the time to give legal 101 class but can't post a link ?
        I asked for links early on in the thread, no one provided any.

        Not that I don't believe there may be a problem, I just wanted to read some first hand information.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Also, I tend to agree with others in this forum who are asking where the public proof was about this specific issue (cams and buckets being defective and damaging the engine upon every drive) prior to this suit coming out.
      1. PetroC63's Avatar
        PetroC63 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        So you've got the time to give legal 101 class but can't post a
        link ?
        Here is a link, see post #34. Calls it "camshaft adjusters".

        http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...-really-2.html

        Post #34

        NOT trying to scare anyone! However, after checking my car, yesterday, the dealer said it were the "CAMSHAFT ADJUSTERS" that were making the noise, NOT the lifters, and definitely NOT the purge valve, so they ordered the replacement parts and the warranty DOES cover it. These are indeed the facts. If your engine sounds like mine, just go get it checked. That's all I said. I am just trying to help people. Have a great day!
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        So now we've heard that MB revised the heads several times but ignored the cams/buckets problem in every revision? Hard to believe. It may be true, but I'm skeptical right now.

        Also, why would higher mileage cars be more at risk than cars with less miles that have been beat on at the track or heavy street use?

        I remember reading about cam position faults and some other issues about the cams, but were cams ever replaced with ones of better quality (the good cams)? If so, does anyone know if MB has designed and manufactured good, non-defective cams for these engines?

        Do all cams and buckets for the M156 (for all years) have the same part numbers?
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        Please understand I know what injunctive relief means and how it works as I briefed the same cases as you during Remedies class. Click here to enlarge

        If you pretend for a minute that other people can read a complaint and a damage prayer you may see what I was saying in my two prior posts.

        I'm hoping for the injunctive relief, which is not going to be a slam dunk part of this case. It involves fatual questions which will not be decided by a judge. They will either be settled favorably between the parties (here's hoping to that, but not holding my breath) or the case will go to a jury or maybe but highly unlikely, the parties will ask the court to be the fact finder.

        Injunctive relief is precisely what M156 owners want out of this case. First we want the factual issue to go in favor of the Plaintiff, then we want the court to order MB to fix the problem and stop denying it's alleged existence and stop denying valid warranty claims for this issue.

        It's like I write in plain English and you just read something else.
        I assume you're a law student. Briefing cases in law school and knowing what happens in real practice is 2 completely different animals. A lot of attorneys don't even know how litigation works in practice, because a good portion of them don't have a litigation practice.

        Once you finish school, forget everything you learned. It's a different world in the real life.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by b.wayne Click here to enlarge
        This is my initial thought as well. I would imagine there is some documentation or pictures verifying said damage/excessive wear. I'm not suggesting that there is nothing wrong with our motor's, but I'm wondering where the concrete proof is? Surely someone would have taken pictures had there been anything abnormal in the motor?
        Not necessarily. As Barfly stated, the vast majority of owners will never see the valve cover off the engine.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PetroC63 Click here to enlarge
        Here is a link, see post #34. Calls it "camshaft adjusters".

        http://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w2...-really-2.html

        Post #34
        If I'm not mistakene that owners problem was a loud ticking sound that proportionally grew louder with the pressing of the accelerator. If so, that's not the ticking we all hear upon many of our start ups. However, maybe all of our engines have the potential to start sounding like that car?
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        I assume you're a law student. Briefing cases in law school and knowing what happens in real practice is 2 completely different animals. A lot of attorneys don't even know how litigation works in practice, because a good portion of them don't have a litigation practice.

        Once you finish school, forget everything you learned. It's a different world in the real life.
        Assume away. But, I practice. Thanks for the tip.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        The audio in the video posted is the precise ticking that indicates the issue is present and bad.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        Assume away. But, I practice. Thanks for the tip.
        I apologize. Your post referencing law school briefing and not actual practice led me astray.

        Rule 23 practice is more procedural and strategic than anything else. It's an entirely different type of litigation.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        Not necessarily. As Barfly stated, the vast majority of owners will never see the valve cover off the engine.
        Yeah, but others have and they're still tuning and supercharging these cars.
      1. Yomama69's Avatar
        Yomama69 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        Yeah, but others have and they're still tuning and supercharging these cars.
        Perhaps there's a reason MHP created new camshafts. For other companies, perhaps ignorance is bliss?
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        The audio in the video posted is the precise ticking that indicates the issue is present and bad.
        Right, but if you are willing, look at my questions above. Did MB fix this problem with new cams that are available?

        Apology accepted.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yomama69 Click here to enlarge
        Perhaps there's a reason MHP created new camshafts. For other companies, perhaps ignorance is bliss?
        I respect MHP to no end, but who's running their cams? I thought they are still a work in progress?