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    • Car and Driver 997 GT2 RS vs. McLaren MP4-12C vs. Ferrari 458 Italia

      First of all, these are all absolutely awesome cars. It's kind of hard to pick a winner and a loser in this bunch Car and Driver did just that. The car picked last was the 997 GT2 RS. Although the GT2 RS is the second fastest, pulls the most on the skidpad, and has the fastest slalom time they rated it negatively for the turbo lag and harsh ride. Uh, it's a GT2 RS. It is made to perform not cushion your old behind. The 458 Italia is actually rated negatively due to sticker gouging? Oh, so it is the cars fault it is so awesome it can command a huge premium? Get real. The MP4-12C wins which is odd considering they say it lacks soul. It also goes against most of the tests up until this point that still pick the Italia.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Car and Driver 997 GT2 RS vs. McLaren MP4-12C vs. Ferrari 458 Italia started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 19 Comments
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        In my opinion,

        The 997 can't really win because it's... a 997. A car ending it's production run.

        However, for many the Porsche will always be the most "exciting" and with a proper set of slicks we all know what GTx Porsche's are capable of. Cya later.

        Again, in my opinion
        A car without any soul...something which Jason Plato, Tiff Needell, Richard Hammond, now Car and Driver etc. have all agreed on cannot win either. Especially when the price difference is 300k vs 330k..
        BLAH if you ask me...

        however, I can understand why they might've picked the McLaren. It's the technology leader- small high revving turbo motor of the future and simply put, it IS a good bit faster than the 458 on a track and in a straight line. Also the comfort factor. That's what it really boils down too. Comfort or soul. Car and driver went to the soft side this time
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        The 997 can't really win because it's... a 997. A car ending it's production run.
        What does when production ends have to do with anything? The best 911 variant traditionally roles around toward the end of production.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        A car without any soul...something which Jason Plato, Tiff Needell, Richard Hammond, now Car and Driver etc. have all agreed on cannot win either. Especially when the price difference is 300k vs 330k..
        Exactly my point.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        Car and driver went to the soft side this time
        I think they went way too soft and it makes for a review that doesn't satisfy with mixed messages.
      1. Sledgehammer's Avatar
        Sledgehammer -
        I think the point of the end of the production run simply means that with a new generation of the 911 set to bow... A redo with the new car could yield better results.

        I've driven every 911 model since 89 and I have always loved their ability to be an all around drivers toy. Especially the latter cars, the 458 is awesome and I do like the motor. Not overly excited by its styling nor the auto trans (yes auto cause no clutch to me equals auto before anyone goes down that road again). I enjoy shifting the gears myself, I wouldnt buy one but enjoyed driving it.

        The McLaren is a mystery, I've sat in a pre production model and gotten a ride in that same model. But I have not driven it so no opinion other than its smaller than I thought and it has limited exhaust sounds. Of the three there the 911 in GT2 RS form would be my weapon of choice.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        The 130+ trap speeds are insane!!
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        The 130+ trap speeds are insane!!
        Especially for a magazine.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        What does when production ends have to do with anything? The best 911 variant traditionally roles around toward the end of production.
        And when did the other cars begin production? The car isn't really the best suit here outside of it's numbers. The 997 came out 7 years ago, the technology is hardly comparable and it's a heavy technology/comfort emphasized test. Why waste a chance to test the GT2 RS here when car and driver could use it in a super-lap battle or something more directly comparable... I'd prefer to see it against an R8 GT V10, now that makes sense to me.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        And when did the other cars begin production? The car isn't really the best suit here outside of it's numbers. The 997 came out 7 years ago, the technology is hardly comparable and it's a heavy technology/comfort emphasized test. Why waste a chance to test the GT2 RS here when car and driver could use it in a super-lap battle or something more directly comparable... I'd prefer to see it against an R8 GT V10, now that makes sense to me.
        The car has all the latest technology just on a slightly older chassis that is modified highly anyway. A platform can evolve, the 911 has been doing it for 30+ years. It's totally comparable as it is the highest performance 997 variant. It will also outperform the next generation 911 for some time until that platform gets a GT2 or GT2 RS. It does not have the same cost constrictions the earlier cars had so the argument can be made the 997 could have been much better. Also, updated technology and design can go on a platform released earlier.

        What does this really have to do with 911's from 7 years ago? Not much, just look at the performance numbers.

        The R8 V10 definitely makes sense as well but the 997 GT2 RS does also.
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        458 is just awesome. You have to try it to figure it out. paying extra $30K is what I would gladly do, no comparison for it.
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        The car has all the latest technology just on a slightly older chassis that is modified highly anyway. A platform can evolve, the 911 has been doing it for 30+ years. It's totally comparable as it is the highest performance 997 variant. It will also outperform the next generation 911 for some time until that platform gets a GT2 or GT2 RS. It does not have the same cost constrictions the earlier cars had so the argument can be made the 997 could have been much better. Also, updated technology and design can go on a platform released earlier.

        What does this really have to do with 911's from 7 years ago? Not much, just look at the performance numbers.

        The R8 V10 definitely makes sense as well but the 997 GT2 RS does also.

        So it has ALL the latest technology, yet the entire chassis is being replaced and is almost/is out of production...

        Totally disagree. A simple look into the electronic programs on the 458 and the MC will tell you otherwise. They are much farther ahead from transmissions to features to the insane traction programs offered in two of the cars here. The next generation 991 will follow many of these offerings

        Never really said they were NOT comparable, rather that putting it in the test was somewhat predictable and a waste unless we are strictly talking about numbers, something Porsche masters.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by onurleft Click here to enlarge
        Totally disagree. A simple look into the electronic programs on the 458 and the MC will tell you otherwise. They are much farther ahead from transmissions to features to the insane traction programs offered in two of the cars here. The next generation 991 will follow many of these offerings
        Porsche doesn't believe in using the PDK on the GT cars. It was not a decision due to technology but philosophy. If they wanted it there, it would be there. Same with other electronics. The 996 GT2 did not even have traction control. Ended up being called the 'Widow Maker.'
      1. Sorena's Avatar
        Sorena -
        997.2 lacks the latest technology? Oh no, it certainly doesn't.
        All the cars with Porsche logo have more technology than their rivals. don't get fooled by the gizmo in MP4-12C, let's count the real technology stuff in it and compare it to the Porsche.
        and one thing to note is GT2-RS is for purist, so don't expect a feature for brushing teeth while driving and such.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
        one thing to note is GT2-RS is for purist, so don't expect a feature for brushing teeth while driving and such.
        Click here to enlarge

        Hahahah!
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Getting a little off topic from my argument.

        I'll leave it at my main point. The 991 will follow what these cars already offer.
        It's hard to "put it there" when your company went bankrupt and into the hands of another holder during the development processes (speaking generally). We'll see if the 991 GT2-3 has PDK as well as some ridiculously high tech aero (despite having no wings) and traction programs like the two other cars. I'll gladly admit I am wrong if the future shows that. However my neighbor is a high up at Porsche Corporate, and the North American headquarters is in my town and like a car nut taking advantage of this, I knew what was coming years before it happened. You'll be impressed by the new designs coming out. Light years ahead of anything Porsche has done to the 911. Anyone an example, I did get lucky enough to use PDKs launch control on a masked C4s pre-production car before any magazine got ahold of it, just throwing it out there...
        Also, that unit DOES NOT just bolt up to 620hp. But I am not arguing with the philosophical point, it's true but its kind of not really related as much to what the point i'm trying to get across is.

        Agree to disagree, if you don't like what I have to say.
      1. GTR-Dad's Avatar
        GTR-Dad -
        EVO mag issue 159 did a definative (their words, and I agree) comparison test centered on the MP4-12C, which included the Porsche (911 Turbo S) and Ferrari among some pretty distinguished iron. (Noble M600, Ford GT, Merc AMG SLS, others??? memory fails me.)

        The upshot was that not one out of six testers would have taken home the McLaren given the choice of any car. Critisms ranged from non-linear brake feel to a slight hesitation at turn in, to a less than perfect 6-9 tenths driving experience. Give them a chance to tweak some of these rough edges and it might win over even the purest of the purists!

        There was no discussion of price and I'm willing to bet the people buying these cars are less interested in plus or minus $50k than they are with other less tangible assets. For my money, I'd buy the Porsche as it's the most closely aligned with my value points. Might change my mind if I drove the 458 or the MP4-12C, but I doubt it.

        Dan
      1. fundahl's Avatar
        fundahl -
        Just read this mag today, strange.


        Sorry but I don't care what they say, GT2RS for me. I mean, just look at it inside and out.... and then see what they did and why it was designed. Exhaust, tune and race gas anyone?

        Can I get a manual, Ferrari? NO!? McLaren? Oh, ok, I see how it is...... put the EGO BEFORE the driving experience......

        You should of scanned the GT2 shots Sticky!
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        Also, i'm not trying to downplay the GT2RS,

        I'd be choosing that one first for sure
      1. fstop7's Avatar
        fstop7 -
        I want the Mac. Can't say no to the doors.
      1. DBFIU's Avatar
        DBFIU -
        i think i would sell my soul for the 458... the 997 is really the ideal car to have and the mclaren, well; for some reason its just another run of the mill supercar.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
        i think i would sell my soul for the 458...
        I'd sell you into slavey for a 458. Even a hard labor camp.