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    • Insideline comparison: 2012 Audi A6 3.0T vs. F10 535i, picks the A6 - 535 largely outperformed, is BMW losing their touch?

      The mid-size luxury sport sedan market was one BMW dominated. Some can argue they really invented it and set the standard. The E39 5 series was really were people saw just how much better BMW was at building these cars for all around performance than anyone else. Something has happened along the way and the F10 5 series is no longer as dominating in this sector. Has Audi gotten better or has BMW slipped? Maybe the answer is both.


      This is about more than just the performance numbers though. This is an area of concern though as the N55 single turbo powered 535i is half a second slower through the 1/4 mile vs. the Audi A6 as well as 5 miles per hour short on trap speed. That is a pretty big difference folks, especially considering the Audi is heavier by 100 pounds and sending its power to all 4 wheels. I think it is safe to say the Audi supercharged V6 is much stronger than the N55 in stock form. From what we know so far, in modded form as well. Insideline also complains about the 535's response. An Audi having better throttle response than a BMW? What is going on?

      BMW's are more than just straight-line performers and the driving dynamics are the area where BMW should dominate. I say should, because it was the Audi dominating. BMW's have pretty much always had better steering feedback and feel than Audi's but not this time around. This is also the major area of letdown with the new F10. It feels isolated and this is a complaint from just about everyone. The Audi even with AWD feels more connected to the road. I hate to say it folks, but this a red flag. The Audi also goes through the slalom at 67.2 MPH vs. the 535's 64.5. The Audi A6 also pulls .90 on the skidpad vs. the 535's .88.

      The Audi also out brakes the BMW. These are all categories BMW did not just excel in previously, they dominated. Yes, Audi is improving but BMW seems to be regressing. Maybe time to stop focusing on the 'i' crap and get back to your core product BMW? That, or we can all just drive Audi's. Not really a problem considering they are building a better car at the moment, at least in the mid-size luxury sedan segment. We'll leave you with this from Insideline, eye opening to say the least:






      This article was originally published in forum thread: Insideline comparison: 2012 Audi A6 3.0T vs. F10 535i, picks the A6 - 535 largely outperformed, is BMW losing their touch? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 12 Comments
      1. onurleft's Avatar
        onurleft -
        I am BMW driver

        But Audi is just making better cars in many segments. That'd the car i'd buy and that's the car I recommend to people

        Similar story in 335i vs S4 or 335ci vs S5 or A8 vs 750li. Hate to say it, Q5 vs X3 as well I.M.O. Better quality interior, better AWD system and I like these 3.0T motors more than the N55's (maybe not N54's though).

        I can't stand heavy cars, or cars that won't get sideways when I want but for people not concerned about that the advantage runs out quick for BMW in my book. These torque vectoring diffs are pretty cool too, so it's really just a weight and overall balance argument for me.

        I'd recommend to anyone, go drive a new Audi. Then go drive it in the rain. You might just want to make the BMW a track/fun car and have an Audi for every day use.

        M is a different ball park. "RS" is still struggling for some identity.
      1. Forced Air's Avatar
        Forced Air -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Because the 550i will still drive isolated. No engine will change the steering feel.

        Also, one does not need to get it fully loaded like that.
        I think his point was the 3.0T is the largest engine you can get in the Audi...whereas is is only the mid-level engine in the BMW. The extra power should certainly help the acceleration, passing, speed performance...not to mention the extra engine weight certainly can change steering feel and cornering performance. For all we know the BMW was designed with the larger engine in mind...Just saying.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Forced Air Click here to enlarge
        I think his point was the 3.0T is the largest engine you can get in the Audi...whereas is is only the mid-level engine in the BMW. The extra power should certainly help the acceleration, passing, speed performance...not to mention the extra engine weight certainly can change steering feel and cornering performance. For all we know the BMW was designed with the larger engine in mind...Just saying.
        It is the largest engine just for now, 4.0T and 4.0TT engines are coming.
      1. Remonster's Avatar
        Remonster -
        I drive my mom's F10 all the time and I have to say, this is unsurprising. To give you an idea of just how not fun it is: my mom, who is a woman in her 50s, says it feels like she's floating on air and misses the connected-to-the-road feel of her 2004 CLK.The CLK was an absolutely terrible car if you ask me but I see what she means, the F10 has absolutely zero steering feel and is just way too large to be any fun.

        Also, the larger engine could only hurt steering feel and cornering performance, there's no way a car can be designed for a heavier engine and somehow handle better than it would with a lighter one. Our F10 is a 528i but there are 535s and a 550i in the family which I've also driven, the straight line performance is certainly different but none of them really have that characteristic BMW feel to the steering or suspension.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
        my mom, who is a woman in her 50s, says it feels like she's floating on air and misses the connected-to-the-road feel of her 2004 CLK
        Ok, that is just sad. I mean for the F10.
      1. KB's Avatar
        KB -
        We have an F10 535xi and love it, although it is the grocery getter. Didn't really consider Audi as I am not a big fan of the looks and I think the F10 is beautiful inside and out. I guess the fun will be reserved for the 1M when we get it. Click here to enlarge
      1. elray's Avatar
        elray -
        Well, in order to beat BMW, it will cost you $15k more. The same goes for the 335i Coupe against the S5. And in the latter case, for that $15k you get an M3 from BMW which will stomp the S5 and is a lot more fun to drive. I also saw a comparison video once between the 335i Coupe and the S5. The S5 was faster to 100 Km and in the 1/4 mile, but could not beat it around the track. So you are not comparing apples to apples here.
      1. BavarianBullet's Avatar
        BavarianBullet -
        Dont forget BMWs are probably at 80%+ lease rate as well. Try leasing a $70k A6 and see how much BMW you can buy. Sliding into a loaded 550i would not be a problem vs the A6.Wont fix the steering feel but people like us are the minority. I am with Sticky on the bmw needs to get back to its roots and leave the overweight cloudmobiles to benz/caddy/lexus.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        I'd pick 550i for basically the same money as that Audi and have both better performance and more comfortable ride.For those who want to feel the uneven road, 1M is the perfect toy.
      1. 654's Avatar
        654 -
        It is common that cars tend to grow. Now 5-series is like what 7-series used to be and if you liked 3-series you buy 1-series. So in comparison the current 5 is bigger than it's predecessor. Perhaps the new 3 will be close to what the "disappointed" were hoping f10 to be.
      1. KB's Avatar
        KB -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        I'd pick 550i for basically the same money as that Audi and have both better performance and more comfortable ride.For those who want to feel the uneven road, 1M is the perfect toy.
        That's what I am doing.
      1. KB's Avatar
        KB -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
        It is common that cars tend to grow. Now 5-series is like what 7-series used to be and if you liked 3-series you buy 1-series. So in comparison the current 5 is bigger than it's predecessor. Perhaps the new 3 will be close to what the "disappointed" were hoping f10 to be.
        I agree, this is really why the 1 series exists. They needed to create a new 3 series sized car so they called it the 1er. So, is the current 7 series really a nine series? lol