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    • Renntech CL65 AMG overall Mercedes 1/4 mile record actually set with nitrous despite claims otherwise?

      You all may recall that RennTech set the overall MB 1/4 mile record of 10.27@137 a couple months back. We were given a mod list by the owner SGC and Renntech of drag radials, higher stall torque converter, limited slip diff, custom exhaust, modified intercooler, carbon ceramic brakes, and race gas only tune. We couldn't understand how this car on stock turbos was trapping so much higher than other M275 V12 twin turbo cars. It would seem the answer is nitrous as a video has popped up showing the lines in the engine bay, check it out yourself.




      This article was originally published in forum thread: Renntech CL65 AMG overall Mercedes 1/4 mile record actually set with nitrous despite claims otherwise? started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 72 Comments
      1. DBFIU's Avatar
        DBFIU -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        can one of the drag racing experts tell us how much hp it takes to p/u 9 mph??
        From what speed to what speed?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        can one of the drag racing experts tell us how much hp it takes to p/u 9 mph??
        A 100-125 shot would do it.
      1. Mike's Avatar
        Mike -
        We need to compare his previous runs(done at the same track I believe, but dont know both conditions) to his new record. I was suspicious when they first ran that record because as sticky said they gained more than a few mph with then said, no power mods. Gaining 2 or 3 mph from one record(renntech records) to the next is hard enough at those speeds. But to gain 5 + with no additional boost is hard to believe. RennTech has great r and d, I just have a feeling they know something that they are not sharing.

        Just scrolling the original thread I found this. SL65 with similar mods prior to record hitting 130 in cold air. That is with picking up 30 on the back half.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V12Godspeed Click here to enlarge
        This has been the Million dollar question. I like Steve (SGC), we have exchanged various texts in the past and I am sure he is a nice guy, but myself having owned a 65 with full modifications identical to his...I managed to trap 128. The other car from member Marko, (white one) trapped 130 on a cold day and his car had a more advanced tune than mines since he was closer to speedriven, However we ran nearly the exact same ET's. I ran a 10.72 and he ran a 10.73,

        Steve's car however is picking up nearly 30 MPH in the back end of the quarter...that is astonishing. Discrepancy in MPH from my run and his is nearly 10 MPH, ...that is flying!!! His dyno made 700 whp with 800 something in torque, Marko and I made 700 rwhp and 900+ rwtq...

        Again big congrats to steve and my hats off to him but I am just having a hard time digesting the data and discrepancies between the runs. I know many will say DA affects the runs, absolutely but still should not be by this much. Who knows, perhaps the runs are legit and we are just pulling our hairs here. Doesn't matter what he used or didn't use, the point is the man ran 10.20's that is just to praise.
      1. V12Godspeed's Avatar
        V12Godspeed -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
        We need to compare his previous runs(done at the same track I believe, but dont know both conditions) to his new record. I was suspicious when they first ran that record because as sticky said they gained more than a few mph with then said, no power mods. Gaining 2 or 3 mph from one record(renntech records) to the next is hard enough at those speeds. But to gain 5 + with no additional boost is hard to believe. RennTech has great r and d, I just have a feeling they know something that they are not sharing.

        Just scrolling the original thread I found this. SL65 with similar mods prior to record hitting 130 in cold air. That is with picking up 30 on the back half.
        You hit the nail in the head...How do you gain so much??? it justs didnt add up for me...and it's ok, it doesnt have to.

        At the end of the day it's SGC's car and he does as he pleases. If he chooses not to disclose any power adders, it's his decision. Life goes on.
      1. MSIZZLE's Avatar
        MSIZZLE -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V12Godspeed Click here to enlarge
        You hit the nail in the head...How do you gain so much??? it justs didnt add up for me...and it's ok, it doesnt have to.

        At the end of the day it's SGC's car and he does as he pleases. If he chooses not to disclose any power adders, it's his decision. Life goes on.
        i agree with what your saying but thats not how this went down, if this gentlemen chose not to tell the community anything it would be ok,but to mis represent your mods to the community isnt right in my opinion. Others with similar cars will try and figure out why they are off by 10mph with the same mods.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V12Godspeed Click here to enlarge
        At the end of the day it's SGC's car and he does as he pleases. If he chooses not to disclose any power adders, it's his decision. Life goes on.
        True, his car and his decision and he can do what he wants. Just like we are free to analyze it and say what we want to about it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSIZZLE Click here to enlarge
        if this gentlemen chose not to tell the community anything it would be ok,but to mis represent your mods to the community isnt right in my opinion.
        I agree with this completely. If you want to keep your mouth shut that is one thing, but to deceive people? That is something else.
      1. V12Godspeed's Avatar
        V12Godspeed -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        True, his car and his decision and he can do what he wants. Just like we are free to analyze it and say what we want to about it.
        Couldnt agree more...
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Ooops, sorry I missed this thread.... looks like I'm late to the party.

        Before I begin, I'm going to break down my reasoning into a few different sections; please note that these points are all based on my opinion, personal experience with Steve, and natural way of thinking when analyzing such situations, so not everyone may agree with them.

        First, I know Steve personally and he is a straight forward person. He is the type of person that would tell you straight to your face "YES I AM USING NITROUS" and would tell you exactly how much he was using. In addition, someone I trust was with him once at a drag event last year and did briefly check out his car and confirm there was no nitrous.

        Second, the increase in trap speed doesn't necessarily mean he used nitrous. It does show there was either power added or weight lost but does NOT automatically correlates to nitrous. And with today's complex electronic management systems, things are not always as straight forward as they once were back in the days. For example, one could use a bigger shot of nitrous and trap lower in the 1/4 mile as has happened with Keith's car and a few others. There are too many factors that go into the equation nowadays. In general, higher trap may not automatically equal nitrous.

        Third, a person who uses nitrous then denies it or hides it would not leave his hood open at every single event for everyone to see, and he would most definitely not let other people photograph/video-graph his car so freely. He could easily leave his hood closed or park the car at an exclusive place or at the very least attempt to hide the nitrous lines from public view. Steve has done the opposite. Not only has he invited people to examine his car, but he has offered $20k for someone to go examine his car and prove he has nitrous LIVE at the track. Basically a put up or shut up offer.

        Fourth, if anyone is "so sure" he used nitrous, why not fly to Florida (all expenses paid) and receive a check for $20k. Heck even if you go and come back in two days, that would still be $10k a day.... not a bad investment if you ask me Click here to enlarge especially for a "sure investment".

        EDIT: Fifth, I'm going to change the thread title from:

        "Renntech CL65 AMG overall Mercedes 1/4 mile record actually set with nitrous despite claims otherwise?"
        to
        "SGC CL65 AMG overall Mercedes 1/4 mile record possibly set with nitrous despite claims otherwise?"

        Since we do NOT know for sure, we should not be stating so authoritatively (at least) until someone takes the $20k challenge and prove other wise.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Ooops, sorry I missed this thread.... looks like I'm late to the party.
        Was wondering where you were... Need to spend less time on MBW and more time here where the real action is Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Second, the increase in trap speed doesn't necessarily mean he used nitrous. It does show there was either power added or weight lost but does NOT automatically correlates to nitrous
        It does correlate more with an increase in power. Where that power is coming from is the main question as the disparity is HUGE.

        I don't see someone being able to pull enough weight from a CL65 to do that.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Third, a person who uses nitrous then denies it or hides it would not leave his hood open at every single event for everyone to see, and he would most definitely not let other people photograph/video-graph his car so freely.
        If he knew someone from the board would go to the track he would likely close the hood if trying to hide.

        That was a video someone randomly picked up that he didn't know about, correct? If so, he may have been caught with his pants down so to speak.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Was wondering where you were... Need to spend less time on MBW and more time here where the real action is Click here to enlarge
        I actually haven't been spending time on mbworld either.... been having internet/server problems at work and the whole place was in a panic, so been extremely busy Click here to enlarge The reason I created that post was because someone alerted me to it and I had to do it from a friend's computer.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It does correlate more with an increase in power. Where that power is coming from is the main question as the disparity is HUGE. I don't see someone being able to pull enough weight from a CL65 to do that.
        Actually, you could drop the CL65 weight by about 400 lbs of static weight, which could yield about 3 mph in the 1/4 mile.... then you could drop another 100 lbs of rotating weight and that could easily yield another 2 mph, so there's 6 mph only in weight savings. Some may say that is not significant, but to me that is a GOOD amount.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        If he knew someone from the board would go to the track he would likely close the hood if trying to hide.

        That was a video someone randomly picked up that he didn't know about, correct? If so, he may have been caught with his pants down so to speak.
        If he wanted to hide it, then he would not let anybody near the car let alone someone with a video camera going around the car a few times. In fact, he would not let any crowd near the car whether they were looking at the car with hood closed or hood open because everyone (nowadays) knows that if there is a video camera involved, the footage will eventually go on YouTube.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        If he wanted to hide it, then he would not let anybody near the car let alone someone with a video camera going around the car a few times.
        See, I don't necessarily agree with this as he likely never expected this video to surface or for that to be someone who would know he was on MBW, etc. He may have been away from the car and whatnot at the time just having it cooling down with the hood up.

        The fact is there are lines there and it does appear to be that the fuel lines are tapped. Additionally, there is a trap speed disparity and this was done in positive DA which nitrous somewhat negates. The pieces do fit although I also do trust your opinion of people.

        This is one of those situations where people need to come to their own conclusion. Mine is that there is more going on than what we have been told.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        See, I don't necessarily agree with this as he likely never expected this video to surface or for that to be someone who would know he was on MBW, etc. He may have been away from the car and whatnot at the time just having it cooling down with the hood up.

        The fact is there are lines there and it does appear to be that the fuel lines are tapped. Additionally, there is a trap speed disparity and this was done in positive DA which nitrous somewhat negates. The pieces do fit although I also do trust your opinion of people.

        This is one of those situations where people need to come to their own conclusion. Mine is that there is more going on than what we have been told.
        Sorry, I edited my previous two posts to answer all your questions at once, so there maybe some comments that you haven't seen.

        Steve have invited people to go examine his car for free in the past so many times and except for a couple of local guys, no one took him on his offer. He always leaves his hood open for everyone to see. There is no chance that he didn't know someone would go look or photograph it because he's been begging people to go examine the car. And since he's been continuously accused of using nitrous in the past 3 years or so, it would be very unlikely that he would leave the hood open and walk away from the car if he wanted to hide it.

        But like I said, this is only my opinion, and everyone is free to believe it or not. This is what I like about this site.... the discussion is always open for someone to state their opinions freely. I'm sure someone will eventually take Steve on his offer and go pick up a $20k check Click here to enlarge
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        Steve have invited people to go examine his car for free in the past so many times and except for a couple of local guys, no one took him on his offer
        It's a good bluff and now in retrospect it can be referenced. It certainly doesn't explain the trap speed disparity and it certainly does not prove those lines are not for nitrous.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        And since he's been continuously accused of using nitrous in the past 3 years or so, it would be very unlikely that he would leave the hood open and walk away from the car if he wanted to hide it.
        Once again, I don't think he was expecting anyone to film or for this video to get out into the open. If was I trying to hide something I would hide it from people I knew were looking for it. He likely didn't suspect someone would get a video of his engine bay and that it would appear on Mercedes forums.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        But like I said, this is only my opinion, and everyone is free to believe it or not. This is what I like about this site.... the discussion is always open for someone to state their opinions freely. I'm sure someone will eventually take Steve on his offer and go pick up a $20k check
        Exactly, free to disagree.

        I think that is a good bluff as well.

        I don't understand why his car is magical and does things with the stock turbos others can't? 7-9 mph is not driving and in positive DA? Does not add up for me.
      1. Exeenom's Avatar
        Exeenom -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It's a good bluff and now in retrospect it can be referenced. It certainly doesn't explain the trap speed disparity and it certainly does not prove those lines are not for nitrous.
        But it equally does not prove that he was using nitrous either. Also, I'm not sure how it is a bluff if a couple of people actually took him up on his offer and checked out his car in the past couple of years without finding anything?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Once again, I don't think he was expecting anyone to film or for this video to get out into the open. If was I trying to hide something I would hide it from people I knew were looking for it. He likely didn't suspect someone would get a video of his engine bay and that it would appear on Mercedes forums.
        See that's what I don't understand.... if everytime he runs, he has been accused of using nitrous and he has invited people many times to look at his car, then he would most definitely be expecting "someone" to come snooping around examining his car or at least be curious about it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I think that is a good bluff as well.
        If you think it is a "good" bluff then you can easily make $20k without losing a penny out of your own pocket by simply calling the bluff. A bluff is no good if everyone knows it's a bluff because they will call it. In this situation, people think it's a bluff but don't want to call it :shrug-confusion:

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't understand why his car is magical and does things with the stock turbos others can't? 7-9 mph is not driving and in positive DA? Does not add up for me.
        You have to remember that RENNtech worked its magic on Steve's car. They spent a lot of time perfecting the times for that car and not many companies can do the same. So if their mods are able to gain a consistant 8 mph gain than others, more power to them. Look at the situation with MHP's C63s.... their heavily modified cars are trapping at least 8 mph more (naturally aspirated) than non MHP cars. It's not a coincidence.... they've spent a lot of time perfecting the times for the C63 platform. Here's another thing that doesn't make a lot of sense.... The quickest/fastest car from MHP's NOS car (DadsC63) which is equipped with 160 shot of NOS traps only 3.2 mph more than their quickest/fastest naturally aspirated car :eek:
      1. Mike's Avatar
        Mike -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        You have to remember that RENNtech worked its magic on Steve's car. They spent a lot of time perfecting the times for that car and not many companies can do the same. So if their mods are able to gain a consistant 8 mph gain than others, more power to them.
        Good points! However I was under the impression that this renntech 65 was trapping 7mph faster than any other renntech 65 with similar mods. Is this not correct?
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        But it equally does not prove that he was using nitrous either. Also, I'm not sure how it is a bluff if a couple of people actually took him up on his offer and checked out his car in the past couple of years without finding anything?
        But something was found, lines were found in a video somebody made that was not "officially" following up on his challenge, correct?

        It does not prove the nitrous, but it certainly is evidence in support of it.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        See that's what I don't understand.... if everytime he runs, he has been accused of using nitrous and he has invited people many times to look at his car, then he would most definitely be expecting "someone" to come snooping around examining his car or at least be curious about it.
        If someone said, "Hey, I'm coming down to check your car out" then likely he would hide the evidence or maybe not even be available. This happened when he was unaware.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        If you think it is a "good" bluff then you can easily make $20k without losing a penny out of your own pocket by simply calling the bluff. A bluff is no good if everyone knows it's a bluff because they will call it. In this situation, people think it's a bluff but don't want to call it :shrug-confusion:
        Guy lives on the other side of the country, not much I can do. I can tell you I would have no problem following up on this if he was in SoCal.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Exeenom Click here to enlarge
        You have to remember that RENNtech worked its magic on Steve's car. They spent a lot of time perfecting the times for that car and not many companies can do the same. So if their mods are able to gain a consistant 8 mph gain than others, more power to them. Look at the situation with MHP's C63s.... their heavily modified cars are trapping at least 8 mph more (naturally aspirated) than non MHP cars. It's not a coincidence.... they've spent a lot of time perfecting the times for the C63 platform. Here's another thing that doesn't make a lot of sense.... The quickest/fastest car from MHP's NOS car (DadsC63) which is equipped with 160 shot of NOS traps only 3.2 mph more than their quickest/fastest naturally aspirated car :eek:
        But the cars already trapping in the high 120's are turbo limited?

        8 mph is basically 100 whp. Where is it coming from? Not carbon brakes.

        The MHP car with the big shot of nitrous was working through torque transmission and torque limiter issues as I recall, so theoretically it still stands to improve greatly since the nitrous isn't even showing the full potential yet.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Mike@MHP Click here to enlarge
        Good points! However I was under the impression that this renntech 65 was trapping 7mph faster than any other renntech 65 with similar mods. Is this not correct?
        This is exactly what is puzzling.