• Confirmed - C63 AMG Black Series will receive tuned M156 6.2 liter V8 around 510 horsepower, $100k base

      A Mercedes-Benz AMG inside source has confirmed the M156 V8 in a higher state of tune will be used in the C63 AMG Black Series. MotorAuthority and InsideLine who reported they confirmed an M157 twin turbo V8 would be used were wrong. It would appear P31 or SLS forged engine internals will be standard. It will not be an M159 (SLS motor) but will likely share similarities such as the heads but not the SLS intake manifold or airboxes due to not being able to fit in the C engine bay. Base price is expected to be $100k.

      This article was originally published in forum thread: Confirmed - C63 Black Series will received tuned M156 6.2 liter V8 around 510 horsepower, $100k base started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 204 Comments
      1. JonsC63AMG's Avatar
        JonsC63AMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        I'm sure its going to be a really nice car but base price of 100K? Ill be across the street at the Corvette dealership getting a ZR1.
        Vettes are dime a dozen. I would get the GTR.
      1. Kbahl21's Avatar
        Kbahl21 -
        id get the BS, GTR's are a dime a dozen.
      1. Kbahl21's Avatar
        Kbahl21 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amgftw Click here to enlarge
        Down a nut = weight reduction
        +1
      1. M3_WC's Avatar
        M3_WC -
        Not sure if this has been posted.

        Can you say "wide-body"!!!!

      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        It looks mean, really mean.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        I would love to see the P31 with LSD coupe against the BS at the Ring. I wonder what the time difference would be?

        Or maybe a 4-dr C63 with LSD, aftermarket tune and LTH's, Evosport rotors, plus coilovers, C/F hood vs BS.

        My guess would be that the BS wouldn't be very dominant, if at all, in road course racing against these two setups listed above.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        I would love to see the P31 with LSD coupe against the BS at the Ring. I wonder what the time difference would be?
        Interesting point and this is the question, how far ahead of the P31 LSD coupe would a BS be?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        My guess would be that the BS wouldn't be very dominant, if at all, in road course racing against these two setups listed above.
        If so, then what is the point?
      1. JonsC63AMG's Avatar
        JonsC63AMG -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        It looks mean, really mean.
        I wonder what the BS sounds like.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        I would love to see the P31 with LSD coupe against the BS at the Ring. I wonder what the time difference would be?

        Or maybe a 4-dr C63 with LSD, aftermarket tune and LTH's, Evosport rotors, plus coilovers, C/F hood vs BS.

        My guess would be that the BS wouldn't be very dominant, if at all, in road course racing against these two setups listed above.
        My guess is you are wrong. The bs is MADE for road racing and if this new variant is fitted with the additional cooling like the clk bs, all those mods you listed above are worthless without more ways to keep the car reliable on a road course like steering coolers, dif coolers, additional oil and larger water coolers. Many other modified c63's have been able to put down some quick laps but almost all of them have reported heat issues and many have reported going into limp mode. Going faster is easy. Going faster for extended periods of time without any mechanical issues is where the bs cars shine - and they do it with a full factory warranty.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonsC63AMG Click here to enlarge
        I wonder what the BS sounds like.
        You have a few vids of it testing posted in the thread: http://www.benzboost.com/showthread....934#post156934
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        My guess is you are wrong. The bs is MADE for road racing and if this new variant is fitted with the additional cooling like the clk bs, all those mods you listed above are worthless without more ways to keep the car reliable on a road course like steering coolers, dif coolers, additional oil and larger water coolers. Many other modified c63's have been able to put down some quick laps but almost all of them have reported heat issues and many have reported going into limp mode. Going faster is easy. Going faster for extended periods of time without any mechanical issues is where the bs cars shine - and they do it with a full factory warranty.
        Well the cooling will keep it lapping longer but the question remains will it lap much faster than a C63 with the mods he listed? Doesn't sound like it and cooling upgrades can be retro-fitted.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        My guess is you are wrong. The bs is MADE for road racing and if this new variant is fitted with the additional cooling like the clk bs, all those mods you listed above are worthless without more ways to keep the car reliable on a road course like steering coolers, dif coolers, additional oil and larger water coolers. Many other modified c63's have been able to put down some quick laps but almost all of them have reported heat issues and many have reported going into limp mode. Going faster is easy. Going faster for extended periods of time without any mechanical issues is where the bs cars shine - and they do it with a full factory warranty.
        I agree the BS is truly made for road racing. And from the accounts I've read (and like you stated) really powerful C63's do run into heat issues.

        Should be interesting to see how Dad's Performance C/F hoods help with heat extraction for road racing.

        Like Sticky said, the coolers can be retro-fitted.

        Of course, if you want the real thing (authentic BS) then there is no substitute. But, when we're talking clocking the fastest lap times, extra power should mean something, especially with the improved suspension in the two car examples I listed above.

        @ Sticky,

        I think the point of the new BS is to continue on with a really cool theme from the CLK BS. Just adding a modern look to an already awesome car should sell some units and continue the reputation of the BS name.

        Not all BS owners or potential BS owners are as into cars as the bunch of us are here. So, I don't think most BS purchasers are asking these questions (like the ones I asked above) when they walk into the dealership.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        Los Angeles - Car capital of the world. I see at least 5 to 10 C63's per day and sometimes more. I agree with you about performance and wanting to mod, but this debate is about what you get for the $100k. Exclusivity has an inherent value...But my point about the warranty is not just that. It's that the car is modified from the factory and with a simple tune, these Black Series cars are very capable where they are intended to be used, on a road course. I think too many people put WAY too much emphasis on 1/4 mile times that really don't mean squat other than how fast the car can go in a straight line and bragging rights. That does not give you a true picture of what the car is all about. And modding it for JUST for that purpose is bastardizing the car IMO.
        More than 10 per day?? Damn, I would sell mine if it was that common where im at. Probably the same 10 you see though. Same traffic patterns if you going to work at the same times.

        I agree I would buy the BS before I modded a C63 to BS specs. Just to keep the warranty.

        However, If the BS was such a desirable car is wouldnt drop 50K in value in less than 3 years. You can buy a 2008 with 15K miles for 80K. In 2 years it will be worth 50K. Dime a dozen? Who cares... Both the regular C63 and the C63BS will be worth 40% of what you paid for it in 5 years. Aside from that you most likely wont have any warranty issues in that time anyhow.

        The 1/4 mile arguement its reality. People drive their cars from light to light and maybe have a little fun on the hwy. These are street cars. Most will never see the full potential and dont buy the car for that purpose anyhow. If you crash on the track its out of pocket. No insurance coverage. WAY more chance of crashing on the twisties than on the 1/4 mile. The Black Series is simply a modified already modified car. The only difference is the factory bastardized it and not the consumer. The 1/4 mile is where its at when you buy a car. How fast can I get from light to light or can I smoke the guy next to me. Twisties are fun, but are something most dont find a use for in reality.

        Putting emphassis on a road course car when purchasing a street car is a waste of money in my opinion. Give me blazing 0-60's and 1/4 miles. It give the biggest rush and will be used daily. Road Course... maybe a couple of times a year if your into it.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonsC63AMG Click here to enlarge
        Not to try the subject but ANYONE could run the 1/4 mile and get a #. Get on a bicycle and win races at the top level-separates the men from the boys. It takes dedication,lots of training to become a winner. Never comes over night.
        ANYONE can get on a bike and get a #. To be a champ is a different story. As with car racing as well. You think its easy to control a top fuel dragster? You think you have the balls to even think about getting into one and put down a 4 sec 1/4 mile? Both require skill and lots of it.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        I think the point of the new BS is to continue on with a really cool theme from the CLK BS. Just adding a modern look to an already awesome car should sell some units and continue the reputation of the BS name.

        Not all BS owners or potential BS owners are as into cars as the bunch of us are here. So, I don't think most BS purchasers are asking these questions (like the ones I asked above) when they walk into the dealership.
        I understand, but what added to the appeal of the CLK63 BS was that it was not available as a coupe. I think the CLK63 was only available as a cab?

        I would hope BS purchasers are the most hardcore and most informed.
      1. Sonny's Avatar
        Sonny -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I understand, but what added to the appeal of the CLK63 BS was that it was not available as a coupe. I think the CLK63 was only available as a cab?

        I would hope BS purchasers are the most hardcore and most informed.
        I don't follow: what do you mean the CLK 63 BS was not available as a coupe? Isn't it a coupe? It has two doors, slant-angle rear windsheild..?

        On the subject of whether BS owners represent the most informed individuals, I think like any group of car owners, there are those that are hardcore types and then just fans of the cars.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        don't follow: what do you mean the CLK 63 BS was not available as a coupe? Isn't it a coupe? It has two doors, slant-angle rear windsheild..?
        Sorry I wasn't more clear. The standard CLK63 was not available as a coupe, only a cab.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sonny Click here to enlarge
        On the subject of whether BS owners represent the most informed individuals, I think like any group of car owners, there are those that are hardcore types and then just fans of the cars.
        The Black Series is definitely targeting your more hardcore Mercedes enthusiast. Sure, some will buy it because it is the most expensive C-class but many will be hardcore track guys or people on forums who know their stuff.
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Well the cooling will keep it lapping longer but the question remains will it lap much faster than a C63 with the mods he listed? Doesn't sound like it and cooling upgrades can be retro-fitted.
        The quote was that the bs "wouldn't dominate on a road course with the setups listed above". I'm pretty sure it would. Sure a modified c63 would hold it's own....but only for a few laps if that then the bs dominance and engineering would overcome and come out ahead. Especially when you consider the big picture, warranty, exclusivity, etc...
        Regarding cooling....I think we agree many have reported issues and sure additional cooling can be retrofitted...but no one has done it to date that I know of. And I've seen lots of people asking abut taking bs radiators and putting them on c63's but again, no one has done it yet. I think that just shows that many "enthusiasts" have a very myopic view when it comes to performance and are willing to sacrifice roadworthyness and reliability. That for me, doesn't work. A modified car needs to be engineered so that it can perform the same way over and over and over again, without hesitation and with 100% reliability. Otherwise, it would seem that the true reason for modification is not to have the best, but only for bragging rights and stop light to stop light street racing. Which IMO is pretty lame. Click here to enlarge
      1. LZH's Avatar
        LZH -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by propain Click here to enlarge
        More than 10 per day?? Damn, I would sell mine if it was that common where im at. Probably the same 10 you see though. Same traffic patterns if you going to work at the same times.

        I agree I would buy the BS before I modded a C63 to BS specs. Just to keep the warranty.

        However, If the BS was such a desirable car is wouldnt drop 50K in value in less than 3 years. You can buy a 2008 with 15K miles for 80K. In 2 years it will be worth 50K. Dime a dozen? Who cares... Both the regular C63 and the C63BS will be worth 40% of what you paid for it in 5 years. Aside from that you most likely wont have any warranty issues in that time anyhow.

        The 1/4 mile arguement its reality. People drive their cars from light to light and maybe have a little fun on the hwy. These are street cars. Most will never see the full potential and dont buy the car for that purpose anyhow. If you crash on the track its out of pocket. No insurance coverage. WAY more chance of crashing on the twisties than on the 1/4 mile. The Black Series is simply a modified already modified car. The only difference is the factory bastardized it and not the consumer. The 1/4 mile is where its at when you buy a car. How fast can I get from light to light or can I smoke the guy next to me. Twisties are fun, but are something most dont find a use for in reality.

        Putting emphassis on a road course car when purchasing a street car is a waste of money in my opinion. Give me blazing 0-60's and 1/4 miles. It give the biggest rush and will be used daily. Road Course... maybe a couple of times a year if your into it.
        I think you are the first person I have ever heard call the performance studios creation of the bs a "bastardization". Click here to enlarge
        I think we can agree that when a consumer modifies a car, it loses some of the factory reliability. Thats the arguments here and many have reported cooling issues with modified c63's. That, IMO is bastardizing a car. If you are doing it simply to beat the guy next to you on the street thats all well and good, but it's pretty clear you are only doing it to stroke your ego and in the process losing sight of the big picture. Because at the end of the day, going fast is easy but it's only one part of the equation when modifying STREET cars.
      1. propain's Avatar
        propain -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
        I think you are the first person I have ever heard call the performance studios creation of the bs a "bastardization". Click here to enlarge
        I think we can agree that when a consumer modifies a car, it loses some of the factory reliability. Thats the arguments here and many have reported cooling issues with modified c63's. That, IMO is bastardizing a car. If you are doing it simply to beat the guy next to you on the street thats all well and good, but it's pretty clear you are only doing it to stroke your ego and in the process losing sight of the big picture. Because at the end of the day, going fast is easy but it's only one part of the equation when modifying STREET cars.
        I was using your definition of modification of a vehicle with aftermarket parts. The point was, since you missed it, is they are taking a regular old C63 and modding it by add parts to make it run faster, or cooler or have more stamina on the track ect. All those things can be achieved by doing it yourself OR you can pay the premium to have MB do it for you and have a warranty. If you want a warranty than tracking your car is not for you. From someone like you who knows everything about racing "Warranty" is not something I would have thought come out of your mouth. Either you have deep pockets to play the rich mans game or you stay off the track and enjoy your street car warranty.

        In some cases modding the car you lose factory reliability. A tune will not cause this is its done right. The tranny in the C63 has heat issues without modding the car at all straight out of the factory. So AMG should be blamed for that bastardization? Or is that MB?

        Ego? EGO? hahaha.. The car industry is completely DRIVEN by ego. Take away ego and the car industry goes out of business. What big picture? My C63 is fast enough to beat a stock BS on the street and I paid $75,000 less for it. My car depreciates slower than a BS. Thats a pretty big picture for me and a big ego shrinker for the Black Series that just got beat on the street waving his warranty out the window... LOL

        Aside from all the bull$#@! talk.. Id really like to know how the Black Series compares on the track to a modified C63 like Dad's. I understand there are heat issues and endurance is out until those problems are solved but what about times? How much quicker does a Black Series lap than a Modified C63? That will give me a bigger picture of track performance.