Yesterday, 11:29 PM
Be forewarned, there is a bit of tuner politics going on here. That said, recently something caught our eye and also caught a few tuners eyes. BenzBoost received an e-mail from MTB Germany regarding their Stage I tuned for the Mercedes W205 C63 AMG M177 engine. A day later, Rebellion Automotive sent us a very similar graph offering a similar product with the dyno graph in German.
To us, it looked like MTB and Rebellion releasing their products at the same was more than a coincidence as was the same style of dyno graph betwen the two with both being in German. This is the not the first time we have seen this. Why would a UK tuner be promoting with German graphs unless their source was German?
This type of thing happens often where tuners who are not vendors send us products hoping we feature them. Usually we dismiss these but BenzBoost is interested in making friends and promoting products so our users are aware of their options even if they are from non-supporting vendors. This is why you read articles on products and achievements not just from the people who pay to advertise. It is also why we were glad to show more options on a new platform like the AMG M177 motor.
Something interesting happened after the articles went up. More than once source saw these MTB and Rebellion articles and mentioned Rebellion was sourcing from MTB Germany. BenzBoost asked Rebellion about this and they said they do all their work in house. BenzBoost also asked Rebellion if their tune was a piggyback like the MTB tune but was told it is a flash. BenzBoost asked for a flash vs. piggyback overlay from Rebellion but did not receive it.
One of the tuners to notice all this was Renntech who said they prefer to stay out of these things but since Rebellion was implying behind the scenes to supply their M133 piggyback box (Renntech since released a flash tune) that they had to set the record straight.
Interesting, especially considering you can see Rebellion marketing the MTB dyno bay under their name:
Renntech definitely did not like the implication that Rebellion is supplying them especially when Rebellion is the one that looks to be supplied and is reselling:
Striking similarity between those boxes and graphs that MTB and Rebellion post.
We asked MTB directly if they supply Rebellion. They did not confirm it but they did not deny it:
Rebellion denied it:
"The reason the dyno is in german is because our physical delivery vehicle isnt arriving until first week in July. We had to go to Germany to work on a Clients vehicle which was one of the first delivered. ... In the UK there is only around 10cars total so far!
I have a team of coders on my payroll experts in various fields.. Not other companies.."
Now, Renntech alleges the V2 Rebellion box released in April 2014 copies the Renntech design:
"Again: they just found out where we got our wiring and hardware from… Still these are NOT the same boxes, even if they use the same connectors.
We have a different hardware + a different program that we have programmed by ourselves.
In the end we will not get future units from the same supplier to avoid these problems in the future."
So Renntech is changing suppliers to avoid potential copy cats naturally.
Renntech is using TTE for their M133 turbo upgrade because TTE already began doing the work so it is logical to use them as a supplier. Rebellion also uses TTE as do many other companies. Building turbos is what TTE (The Turbo Engineers) in Germany does.
Renntech waited until they had full control of the ECU before venturing into the turbo upgrade. Rebellion automotive did not.
Renntech Regarding the M133 Turbo:
"We played with an upgraded turbo from the beginning (September 2013) but since the results were not better to start with compared to Stock turbo and Box, we decided to wait until we have full ECU access.
Meanwhile MTB sent a unit over to TTE (the turbo engineers) https://www.facebook.com/MTBFahrzeugtechnik/photos/a.144749192238163.25327.140054956040920/610506145662463/?type=1
They also didn’t get much better results but still… The TTE unit was “born” and available from then on, this is why we decided NOT to go our own way with the Turbo upgrade but just to buy the TTE unit as well.
The truth is as well, that Rebellion never had whatsoever “development” work on anything. I am sure TTE will confirm that the even didn’t know a firm called Rebellion existed until February/March 2014."
Now of course there are politics at work here. Rebellion did not directly state they supply Renntech but implied it:
"2015 22:00:46: Matt - Rebellion: You know where the renntech turbo comes from right?
07/06/2015 22:01:16: LondonViking: Same as where you got yours TTE
07/06/2015 22:02:57: Matt - Rebellion: You know who developed the turbo for the A45 with TTE back in October 2013?
07/06/2015 22:03:11: Matt - Rebellion: And has been updating the range with TTE
07/06/2015 22:04:00: LondonViking: I know what your answer will be but and ?
07/06/2015 22:04:21: Matt - Rebellion: Yes it was us
07/06/2015 22:04:43: Matt - Rebellion: And the question why the renntech box is very very similar to ours..
07/06/2015 22:04:55: Matt - Rebellion: I promise you we are not a guess work company
07/06/2015 22:05:20: Matt - Rebellion: We are a development company and we push the boundaries to a brief
07/06/2015 22:05:36: Matt - Rebellion: Fir most of our customers they want fast road cars
07/06/2015 22:05:53: Matt - Rebellion: For*
07/06/2015 22:24:29: LondonViking: Sorry for the late reply but if you claim their box is a replicate of yours that's interesting
07/06/2015 22:27:49: Matt - Rebellion: I'm not claiming anything ��
07/06/2015 22:28:56: LondonViking: Aren't you saying between the lines they've copied your stage I box ?
07/06/2015 22:31:34: Matt - Rebellion: Not at all. I'm still slightly confused as to why the group insist we have not provide info when we have provided more than anyone else"
This certainly is interesting. The truth is probably that Rebellion has a German source and the logical conclusion is that the source is MTB based on the evidence provided although we can not say this with 100% certainty as neither MTB or Rebellion will confirm it.
Renntech does not like the implication that the Rebellion box and the Renntech box are similar due to Rebellion's work and is switching suppliers as they believe Rebellion sourced the same supplier as Renntech in a move to copy.
You can decide on your own what the truth is.